6 ms·

> The Visual Studio toolchain does have LTSC and stable releases - no one seems to know about them though. You only get access to the LTSC channel if you have

> The Visual Studio toolchain does have LTSC and stable releases - no one seems to know about them though. You only get access to the LTSC channel if you have a license for at least Visual Studio Professional (Community won't do it); so a lot of hobbyist programmers and students are not aware of it. On the other hand, its existence is in my experience very well-known among people who use Visual Studio for work at some company.

dgxyz 9mo ago
You can install the LTSC toolchain without a license. Just not the IDE.
- foepys 9mo ago
  That's not correct. You don't have to give your credit card details or even be logged in but you are still required to have any Visual Studio license. For hobbyists and startups the VS Community license is enough but larger companies need a VS Professional license even for the VS Build Tools. How strict Microsoft is with enforcement of this license is another story.
  - dgxyz 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - okanat 9mo ago
      Well, let's say this is the world view of all companies about open-source software. Then what happens. If people "tend to not give crap" about licenses, all the nice guarantees of GPL etc also disappear.
      - scotty79 9mo ago
        There are zero guarantees and commercial software uses GPLd software as parts of their products all the time. Licenses do not work and you shouldn't respect them whenever you can.
      - cies 9mo ago
        Very weird comparison. GPL was made in response to restrictive commercial licensing. Yes is uses the same legal document (a license): but is made in response! So is propriety seizes to exist, then it's not a problem GPL also seizes to exist. Also: it's quite obvious to me that IP-law nowadays too much. It may have been a good idea at first, but now it's a monster (and people seem to die because of it: Aaron Swartz and Suchir Balaji come to mind).
  - anankaie 9mo ago
    You do not need a Professional or Enterprise license to use the Visual Studio Build Tools: > Previously, if the application you were developing was not OSS, installing VSBT was permitted only if you had a valid Visual Studio license (e.g., Visual Studio Community or higher). From (https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/updates-to-visual-studio-build-tools-license-for-c-and-cpp-open-source-projects/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/updates-to-visual-stu...). For OSS, you do not even need a Community License anymore.
    - dwattttt 9mo ago
      This does not apply if you're developing closed source: > if you and your team need to compile and develop proprietary C++ code with Visual Studio, a Visual Studio license will still be required.
      - irishcoffee 9mo ago
        Is the fancy text editor compiling, or the toolchain? I don’t need visual to write, read, compile, or link any code using the toolchain.
      - quietbritishjim 9mo ago
        That just confirms the parent comment's point. If you're just using the build tools directly, you're fine. If need to develop "with Visual Studio" i.e. the IDE, not just the command line tools, then you need the paid license.
        dwattttt 9mo ago
        It's actually not. It's complicated, but they're explicitly allowing Build Tools to be used to compile open source dependencies of closed source projects that do not need the MSVC toolchain for proprietary components. It's why the example they give in the article is a Node.js application with native open source dependencies (e.g. sqlite3). EDIT: it's clearer when read in context of the opening paragraph: > Visual Studio Build Tools (VSBT) can now be used for compiling open-source C++ dependencies from source without requiring a Visual Studio license, even when you are working for an enterprise on a commercial or closed-source project.
  - qingcharles 9mo ago
    And a VS license isn't too expensive if you really want to buy one. Stack Social have legit licenses discounted to $15: https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-visual-studio-professional-2022-3 https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-visual-studio-pr...
    - eps 9mo ago
      This definetly looks like some sort of scam. Like a volume key license being resold against EULA or some such.
      - aleph_minus_one 9mo ago
        > Like a volume key license being resold against EULA or some such. At least in the EU, this is legal.
        eps 9mo ago
        Through which means?
        aleph_minus_one 9mo ago
        I can only provide articles that are in German: An article about court decision by the EuGH from 2012: https://www.heise.de/hintergrund/EuGH-Gebrauchte-Softwarelizenzen-duerfen-weiterverkauft-werden-1631066.html https://www.heise.de/hintergrund/EuGH-Gebrauchte-Softwareliz... Another court decision from the BGH (the highest German civil court) from 2014 that builds on this EuGH decision: https://www.heise.de/news/BGH-begruendet-Rechtmaessigkeit-des-Gebrauchtsoftware-Handels-2104055.html https://www.heise.de/news/BGH-begruendet-Rechtmaessigkeit-de...
kfsone 9mo ago
The Visual Studio Build Tools are installable with winget (`winget search buildtools`). There are licensing constraints, IANL but essentially you need a pro+ license on the account if you're going to use it to build commercial software or in a business environment.

dgxyz 9mo ago

You can install the LTSC toolchain without a license. Just not the IDE.

foepys 9mo ago
That's not correct. You don't have to give your credit card details or even be logged in but you are still required to have any Visual Studio license. For hobbyists and startups the VS Community license is enough but larger companies need a VS Professional license even for the VS Build Tools. How strict Microsoft is with enforcement of this license is another story.
- dgxyz 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - okanat 9mo ago
    Well, let's say this is the world view of all companies about open-source software. Then what happens. If people "tend to not give crap" about licenses, all the nice guarantees of GPL etc also disappear.
    - scotty79 9mo ago
      There are zero guarantees and commercial software uses GPLd software as parts of their products all the time. Licenses do not work and you shouldn't respect them whenever you can.
    - cies 9mo ago
      Very weird comparison. GPL was made in response to restrictive commercial licensing. Yes is uses the same legal document (a license): but is made in response! So is propriety seizes to exist, then it's not a problem GPL also seizes to exist. Also: it's quite obvious to me that IP-law nowadays too much. It may have been a good idea at first, but now it's a monster (and people seem to die because of it: Aaron Swartz and Suchir Balaji come to mind).
- anankaie 9mo ago
  You do not need a Professional or Enterprise license to use the Visual Studio Build Tools: > Previously, if the application you were developing was not OSS, installing VSBT was permitted only if you had a valid Visual Studio license (e.g., Visual Studio Community or higher). From (https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/updates-to-visual-studio-build-tools-license-for-c-and-cpp-open-source-projects/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/updates-to-visual-stu...). For OSS, you do not even need a Community License anymore.
  - dwattttt 9mo ago
    This does not apply if you're developing closed source: > if you and your team need to compile and develop proprietary C++ code with Visual Studio, a Visual Studio license will still be required.
    - irishcoffee 9mo ago
      Is the fancy text editor compiling, or the toolchain? I don’t need visual to write, read, compile, or link any code using the toolchain.
    - quietbritishjim 9mo ago
      That just confirms the parent comment's point. If you're just using the build tools directly, you're fine. If need to develop "with Visual Studio" i.e. the IDE, not just the command line tools, then you need the paid license.
      - dwattttt 9mo ago
        It's actually not. It's complicated, but they're explicitly allowing Build Tools to be used to compile open source dependencies of closed source projects that do not need the MSVC toolchain for proprietary components. It's why the example they give in the article is a Node.js application with native open source dependencies (e.g. sqlite3). EDIT: it's clearer when read in context of the opening paragraph: > Visual Studio Build Tools (VSBT) can now be used for compiling open-source C++ dependencies from source without requiring a Visual Studio license, even when you are working for an enterprise on a commercial or closed-source project.
- qingcharles 9mo ago
  And a VS license isn't too expensive if you really want to buy one. Stack Social have legit licenses discounted to $15: https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-visual-studio-professional-2022-3 https://www.stacksocial.com/sales/microsoft-visual-studio-pr...
  - eps 9mo ago
    This definetly looks like some sort of scam. Like a volume key license being resold against EULA or some such.
    - aleph_minus_one 9mo ago
      > Like a volume key license being resold against EULA or some such. At least in the EU, this is legal.
      - eps 9mo ago
        Through which means?
        aleph_minus_one 9mo ago
        I can only provide articles that are in German: An article about court decision by the EuGH from 2012: https://www.heise.de/hintergrund/EuGH-Gebrauchte-Softwarelizenzen-duerfen-weiterverkauft-werden-1631066.html https://www.heise.de/hintergrund/EuGH-Gebrauchte-Softwareliz... Another court decision from the BGH (the highest German civil court) from 2014 that builds on this EuGH decision: https://www.heise.de/news/BGH-begruendet-Rechtmaessigkeit-des-Gebrauchtsoftware-Handels-2104055.html https://www.heise.de/news/BGH-begruendet-Rechtmaessigkeit-de...

kfsone 9mo ago

The Visual Studio Build Tools are installable with winget (`winget search buildtools`). There are licensing constraints, IANL but essentially you need a pro+ license on the account if you're going to use it to build commercial software or in a business environment.