4 ms·

Sure, we don't know the entire backstory, but can we agree that no person should live in these conditions? Especially in one of the richest places in the world.

by imiric 8mo ago

Sure, we don't know the entire backstory, but can we agree that no person should live in these conditions? Especially in one of the richest places in the world. Everyone deserves dignity, food, and shelter. Also, can we stop stigmatizing "drug" use? Most of humanity uses "drugs" regularly for various reasons. Just because a specific "drug" which someone enjoys using recreationally is on a government list doesn't mean that they can't be a productive member of society. Live and let live.

hn_throwaway_99 8mo ago
He was given food and shelter, and then he left on his own volition. He wasn't willing to stay in a shelter unless he had a private room so he stole some stuff from some stores so he could sleep under a bridge.
- imiric 8mo ago
  He was given temporary shelter, and later a bed in a room with 20 people. Have you seen what these places look like? Would you sleep in such conditions? Dignity and personal space is something the richest country in the world can afford for all of its citizens. Yet chooses not to. People committing petty theft are largely forced to do so due to the circumstances they live in. Your judgment is better aimed at people committing white-collar crime with far worse consequences in the same city the author is located in.
  - hn_throwaway_99 8mo ago
    He makes it sound like he was originally offered more permanent shelter but he rejected it: > The end of March happened and so did the temporary shelter. I needed to find a new place. > I remembered a place in San Mateo I rejected back in February. It hadn’t crossed my mind when I first arrived back in San Francisco. When I had been offered it in February, I rejected the offer because I thought it was ludicrous to think I was homeless. I come from a relatively privileged upbringing, and the idea of homelessness was a distant concept to my naive brain.
pierrekin 8mo ago
It’s hard to respond to a call for “everyone to agree” in an online forum but yes. Even people who are self or outwardly destructive, do not deserve the outcome the author got. I think a harder to answer question is, assuming there are not enough resources to help everyone in need (in a practical sense) should we prioritise the “more deserving” over the less. Every human who is suffering deserves compassion, but should we deprioritise those who are suffering partially because of their own choices?
- imiric 8mo ago
  > Every human who is suffering deserves compassion, but should we deprioritise those who are suffering partially because of their own choices? Opening the discussion about who is more worthy of assistance is a slippery slope towards some people not getting it due to personal biases and politics of those in power. Poor life choices can be consequences of poor upbringing, mental health, or simply bad luck. People can be helped in different ways to avoid making those mistakes. Reform is possible, but it starts with a society and government that cares for all of its people, and doesn't marginalize some as lower-class citizens.
  - mettamage 8mo ago
    And is capable enough to be (1) wealthy and (2) distribute that wealth so that everyone is wealthy enough. Especially (2) is hard. Norway seems to be the only country having some actual demonstrable skill at it. When Covid came to Europe, we saw on the news how Italy was hit and what doctors had to do. Long story short: young people lived, old people died. Because doctors faced the awful decision of whom to put on life support. In the Covid case there's a genuine moment of lack of resources (good luck training enough doctors to help, even in a utopia it wouldn't be possible). Unfortunately, since many countries are bad at distributing their own resources enough such that no one is poor, we're basically in a Covid-like situation when it comes to homeless people. And I'm saying this as a Dutch person. As I have one family member who didn't eat for 2 weeks, fainted, got found, etc. Granted, this person doesn't want to deal with bureaucracy and is quite stubborn, among other things. But still, even in a country that has "socialism" this stuff happens. And we're not as socialistic as one might think: Polish people that come here to perform labor do so in quite awful circumstances, to the point that when they lose a finger or a thumb they get reimbursed like 300 to 500 euro's IIRC. I watched it from some Dutch documentary (probably Nieuwsuur). Countries are just incredibly bad at resource (re)distribution.
ponector 8mo ago
>> no person should live in these conditions Do you suggest they should be forced to the asylum for mentally ill people?

by imiric 8mo ago

hn_throwaway_99 8mo ago

He was given food and shelter, and then he left on his own volition. He wasn't willing to stay in a shelter unless he had a private room so he stole some stuff from some stores so he could sleep under a bridge.

imiric 8mo ago
He was given temporary shelter, and later a bed in a room with 20 people. Have you seen what these places look like? Would you sleep in such conditions? Dignity and personal space is something the richest country in the world can afford for all of its citizens. Yet chooses not to. People committing petty theft are largely forced to do so due to the circumstances they live in. Your judgment is better aimed at people committing white-collar crime with far worse consequences in the same city the author is located in.
- hn_throwaway_99 8mo ago
  He makes it sound like he was originally offered more permanent shelter but he rejected it: > The end of March happened and so did the temporary shelter. I needed to find a new place. > I remembered a place in San Mateo I rejected back in February. It hadn’t crossed my mind when I first arrived back in San Francisco. When I had been offered it in February, I rejected the offer because I thought it was ludicrous to think I was homeless. I come from a relatively privileged upbringing, and the idea of homelessness was a distant concept to my naive brain.

pierrekin 8mo ago

It’s hard to respond to a call for “everyone to agree” in an online forum but yes. Even people who are self or outwardly destructive, do not deserve the outcome the author got. I think a harder to answer question is, assuming there are not enough resources to help everyone in need (in a practical sense) should we prioritise the “more deserving” over the less. Every human who is suffering deserves compassion, but should we deprioritise those who are suffering partially because of their own choices?

imiric 8mo ago
> Every human who is suffering deserves compassion, but should we deprioritise those who are suffering partially because of their own choices? Opening the discussion about who is more worthy of assistance is a slippery slope towards some people not getting it due to personal biases and politics of those in power. Poor life choices can be consequences of poor upbringing, mental health, or simply bad luck. People can be helped in different ways to avoid making those mistakes. Reform is possible, but it starts with a society and government that cares for all of its people, and doesn't marginalize some as lower-class citizens.
- mettamage 8mo ago
  And is capable enough to be (1) wealthy and (2) distribute that wealth so that everyone is wealthy enough. Especially (2) is hard. Norway seems to be the only country having some actual demonstrable skill at it. When Covid came to Europe, we saw on the news how Italy was hit and what doctors had to do. Long story short: young people lived, old people died. Because doctors faced the awful decision of whom to put on life support. In the Covid case there's a genuine moment of lack of resources (good luck training enough doctors to help, even in a utopia it wouldn't be possible). Unfortunately, since many countries are bad at distributing their own resources enough such that no one is poor, we're basically in a Covid-like situation when it comes to homeless people. And I'm saying this as a Dutch person. As I have one family member who didn't eat for 2 weeks, fainted, got found, etc. Granted, this person doesn't want to deal with bureaucracy and is quite stubborn, among other things. But still, even in a country that has "socialism" this stuff happens. And we're not as socialistic as one might think: Polish people that come here to perform labor do so in quite awful circumstances, to the point that when they lose a finger or a thumb they get reimbursed like 300 to 500 euro's IIRC. I watched it from some Dutch documentary (probably Nieuwsuur). Countries are just incredibly bad at resource (re)distribution.

ponector 8mo ago

>> no person should live in these conditions Do you suggest they should be forced to the asylum for mentally ill people?