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> The video evidence shows beyond peradventure that Renee Good didn't strike an ICE agent Let's not get caught up arguing about the play-by-play details. There

> The video evidence shows beyond peradventure that Renee Good didn't strike an ICE agent Let's not get caught up arguing about the play-by-play details. There will always be rabid disagreement regardless of merit, causing us to miss the crux of the matter. The important big-picture dynamic is that the agent set up the situation so he'd have an excuse to kill the next person who tried to drive away from him, directly contrary to ICE's own policies. That would be second degree murder, if the perp weren't a member of a protected class.

RickJWagner 9mo ago
[flagged]
- HighGoldstein 9mo ago
  > Struck the ICE agent with her car One of the above comments gives a pretty clear cut showcase of how this is not, in fact, a fact. > I think they both contributed to the tragedy. "Between me and Jeff Bezos we are worth several hundred billion dollars". The ICE agent contributed the bullets that made this a tragedy, the victim contributed not following the orders of people who are not police officers, I'd say it's not much of a "both" situation. > Nobody protesting peacefully gets shot. At least one person already has, but something tells me you'll just move the goalpost of what "peacefully" means.
  - RickJWagner 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - dctoedt 9mo ago
      > Vehicular assault protest is dangerous and illegal protest. You need to watch the video compilation linked to above. It wasn't anything resembling "vehicular assault protest" — it was a woman trying to verrrry slowwwwly drive away and an armed ICE agent shooting her when his feet slipped.
- mindslight 9mo ago
  It's a peculiar type of insanity to insist that it is the responsibility of everyday citizens to react perfectly calmly and rationally while being assaulted by armed agents of the state (themselves often acting impulsively and aggressively), and to then justify people being summarily executed when they inevitably do not. Furthermore, it's disingenuous to talk about "unlawful behavior" while skipping over the federal government violating the much deeper laws that were explicitly written into its charter. If you want to keep closing your eyes to what is plainly in front of you, that is on you.
  - RickJWagner 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - fragmede 9mo ago
      When you put it that way, it makes it sound like you're okay with the federal government (no matter who's in charge) having gangs of masked men kidnapping people off the streets.
      - RickJWagner 9mo ago
        [flagged]
        mindslight 9mo ago
        You keep focusing on these small slices of the issue where you can go A+B->C "yup looks good!". Meanwhile the larger context here is exactly what's important. Personally I'm basically ambivalent about deporting illegal immigrants. I am NOT ambivalent about the first amendment, the second amendment, abducting citizens/legal immigrants, due process and coercion, inhumane conditions, an administration that doesn't respect the loss of American life, an administration that continues to announce that their goal is to deport many more people than merely illegal immigrants, etc. I thought Obama was running/supporting an inhumane machine as well, although I was both-sidesing at the time so I didn't see a political lever that could be pulled to affect it. But has it occurred to you that even if you consider the net actions the same, fewer people protested Obama precisely because Obama could sell those policies by engendering trust and demonstrating respect for at least some traditional American values?

RickJWagner 9mo ago

[flagged]

HighGoldstein 9mo ago
> Struck the ICE agent with her car One of the above comments gives a pretty clear cut showcase of how this is not, in fact, a fact. > I think they both contributed to the tragedy. "Between me and Jeff Bezos we are worth several hundred billion dollars". The ICE agent contributed the bullets that made this a tragedy, the victim contributed not following the orders of people who are not police officers, I'd say it's not much of a "both" situation. > Nobody protesting peacefully gets shot. At least one person already has, but something tells me you'll just move the goalpost of what "peacefully" means.
- RickJWagner 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - dctoedt 9mo ago
    > Vehicular assault protest is dangerous and illegal protest. You need to watch the video compilation linked to above. It wasn't anything resembling "vehicular assault protest" — it was a woman trying to verrrry slowwwwly drive away and an armed ICE agent shooting her when his feet slipped.
mindslight 9mo ago
It's a peculiar type of insanity to insist that it is the responsibility of everyday citizens to react perfectly calmly and rationally while being assaulted by armed agents of the state (themselves often acting impulsively and aggressively), and to then justify people being summarily executed when they inevitably do not. Furthermore, it's disingenuous to talk about "unlawful behavior" while skipping over the federal government violating the much deeper laws that were explicitly written into its charter. If you want to keep closing your eyes to what is plainly in front of you, that is on you.
- RickJWagner 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - fragmede 9mo ago
    When you put it that way, it makes it sound like you're okay with the federal government (no matter who's in charge) having gangs of masked men kidnapping people off the streets.
    - RickJWagner 9mo ago
      [flagged]
      - mindslight 9mo ago
        You keep focusing on these small slices of the issue where you can go A+B->C "yup looks good!". Meanwhile the larger context here is exactly what's important. Personally I'm basically ambivalent about deporting illegal immigrants. I am NOT ambivalent about the first amendment, the second amendment, abducting citizens/legal immigrants, due process and coercion, inhumane conditions, an administration that doesn't respect the loss of American life, an administration that continues to announce that their goal is to deport many more people than merely illegal immigrants, etc. I thought Obama was running/supporting an inhumane machine as well, although I was both-sidesing at the time so I didn't see a political lever that could be pulled to affect it. But has it occurred to you that even if you consider the net actions the same, fewer people protested Obama precisely because Obama could sell those policies by engendering trust and demonstrating respect for at least some traditional American values?