4 ms·

The bar in the US right now seems to be if someone with any authority feels like killing you.

by HighGoldstein 8mo ago

RickJWagner 8mo ago
[flagged]
- dctoedt 8mo ago
  > nobody has been killed that wasn’t carrying a gun with extra ammo or striking cops with their vehicle. The video evidence shows beyond peradventure that Renee Good didn't strike the ICE agent — who isn't a cop — with her vehicle. EDIT: See the NY Times's frame-by-frame, time-synchronized compilation of the various videos [0], especially starting at about 3:42 in that video [1]. The agent wasn't hit by Good's vehicle - starting at 4:53 of the video [2], he was standing well away from her vehicle (see 5:42 [3]), leaning on it with his hand on the front fender, and his feet slipped as she was trying to pull away. He wasn't hit or run over — at most he was slightly pushed by the vehicle. His reaction — "fucking bitch" [4]. As to Alex Pretti: You're focusing like a laser on a fact — if such it be — that's completely irrelevant. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9R9dAmws6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9R9dAmws6M And yes, I firmly believe the NY Times tries to get it right, and corrects their errors on the rare occasions that they make them. [1] https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=hqGlX9J0Iwpveqwu&t=222 https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=hqGlX9J0Iwpveqwu&t=222 [2] https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=UKhDNxdXaCFhvdr0&t=293 https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=UKhDNxdXaCFhvdr0&t=293 [3] https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=7WNCsHcPm7b6ycJ-&t=334 https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=7WNCsHcPm7b6ycJ-&t=334 [4] https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=RiHOgMrJGxgqmq_8&t=389 https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=RiHOgMrJGxgqmq_8&t=389
  - mindslight 8mo ago
    > The video evidence shows beyond peradventure that Renee Good didn't strike an ICE agent Let's not get caught up arguing about the play-by-play details. There will always be rabid disagreement regardless of merit, causing us to miss the crux of the matter. The important big-picture dynamic is that the agent set up the situation so he'd have an excuse to kill the next person who tried to drive away from him, directly contrary to ICE's own policies. That would be second degree murder, if the perp weren't a member of a protected class.
    - RickJWagner 8mo ago
      [flagged]
      - HighGoldstein 8mo ago
        > Struck the ICE agent with her car One of the above comments gives a pretty clear cut showcase of how this is not, in fact, a fact. > I think they both contributed to the tragedy. "Between me and Jeff Bezos we are worth several hundred billion dollars". The ICE agent contributed the bullets that made this a tragedy, the victim contributed not following the orders of people who are not police officers, I'd say it's not much of a "both" situation. > Nobody protesting peacefully gets shot. At least one person already has, but something tells me you'll just move the goalpost of what "peacefully" means.
        RickJWagner 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        dctoedt 8mo ago
        > Vehicular assault protest is dangerous and illegal protest. You need to watch the video compilation linked to above. It wasn't anything resembling "vehicular assault protest" — it was a woman trying to verrrry slowwwwly drive away and an armed ICE agent shooting her when his feet slipped.
      - mindslight 8mo ago
        It's a peculiar type of insanity to insist that it is the responsibility of everyday citizens to react perfectly calmly and rationally while being assaulted by armed agents of the state (themselves often acting impulsively and aggressively), and to then justify people being summarily executed when they inevitably do not. Furthermore, it's disingenuous to talk about "unlawful behavior" while skipping over the federal government violating the much deeper laws that were explicitly written into its charter. If you want to keep closing your eyes to what is plainly in front of you, that is on you.
  - simianparrot 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - dctoedt 8mo ago
      See my edited comment, with a link to the NY Times's frame-by-frame, time-synced compilation of various video angles. She didn't run over him or even hit him.
      - hackable_sand 8mo ago
        They don't care Nazi sympathizers don't care about facts
        dctoedt 8mo ago
        I know. But being nasty to (him?) would just make it that much less likely that he’d ever see things in a different light someday.
        deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
        plagiarist 8mo ago
        The only thing that seems to change minds is when it happens to them or their family.
        deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
        hackable_sand 8mo ago
        That day is right now There are no second chances
      - simianparrot 8mo ago
        It only takes that to be a «nazi» sympathiser huh. And my comment flagged. You might need to go read up on what the nazis were like. I’m in Europe. We _really_ know what the nazis were like — they occupied my country. I live in a street named after resistance fighters who died fighting them. You’re extremely naive and disrespectful of the victims of the nazis.
  - like_any_other 8mo ago
    The top-right video of your first link, at the 47-55 second time mark, literally shows her car hitting him.
    - dctoedt 8mo ago
      That's not how it looks to me. Her vehicle seems to come close and might even touch the agent's leg — maybe (the narration says no). But "hitting him" doesn't seem to be a reasonable way to describe it, even granting that the video clip is in slow motion. https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=xdxZIHQGODS9fB3e&t=323 https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=xdxZIHQGODS9fB3e&t=323
      - like_any_other 8mo ago
        The agent was leaning significantly forward, and suddenly acquired backwards momentum just when the car got close, despite his center of mass being in front of his feet. The only way he could move like that was by getting hit by the car.
        dctoedt 8mo ago
        > The only way he could move like that was by getting hit by the car. He had a hand braced on the left-front fender and was leaning against it, with his feet maybe a yard away — apparently on icy pavement. The vehicle could well have pushed him as it moved; that's not the same as hitting him.
        like_any_other 8mo ago
        So she rapidly accelerated at him, and her car pushed him away, either by hitting his torso or his arm. And that in the 1-2 seconds the agent had to figure out her actions and intent, he arguably made the wrong call, is rephrased as: "Speech is disallowed if someone with any authority feels like killing you"
        dctoedt 8mo ago

The bar in the US right now seems to be if someone with any authority feels like killing you.

RickJWagner 8mo ago

[flagged]

dctoedt 8mo ago
> nobody has been killed that wasn’t carrying a gun with extra ammo or striking cops with their vehicle. The video evidence shows beyond peradventure that Renee Good didn't strike the ICE agent — who isn't a cop — with her vehicle. EDIT: See the NY Times's frame-by-frame, time-synchronized compilation of the various videos [0], especially starting at about 3:42 in that video [1]. The agent wasn't hit by Good's vehicle - starting at 4:53 of the video [2], he was standing well away from her vehicle (see 5:42 [3]), leaning on it with his hand on the front fender, and his feet slipped as she was trying to pull away. He wasn't hit or run over — at most he was slightly pushed by the vehicle. His reaction — "fucking bitch" [4]. As to Alex Pretti: You're focusing like a laser on a fact — if such it be — that's completely irrelevant. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9R9dAmws6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9R9dAmws6M And yes, I firmly believe the NY Times tries to get it right, and corrects their errors on the rare occasions that they make them. [1] https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=hqGlX9J0Iwpveqwu&t=222 https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=hqGlX9J0Iwpveqwu&t=222 [2] https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=UKhDNxdXaCFhvdr0&t=293 https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=UKhDNxdXaCFhvdr0&t=293 [3] https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=7WNCsHcPm7b6ycJ-&t=334 https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=7WNCsHcPm7b6ycJ-&t=334 [4] https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=RiHOgMrJGxgqmq_8&t=389 https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=RiHOgMrJGxgqmq_8&t=389
- mindslight 8mo ago
  > The video evidence shows beyond peradventure that Renee Good didn't strike an ICE agent Let's not get caught up arguing about the play-by-play details. There will always be rabid disagreement regardless of merit, causing us to miss the crux of the matter. The important big-picture dynamic is that the agent set up the situation so he'd have an excuse to kill the next person who tried to drive away from him, directly contrary to ICE's own policies. That would be second degree murder, if the perp weren't a member of a protected class.
  - RickJWagner 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - HighGoldstein 8mo ago
      > Struck the ICE agent with her car One of the above comments gives a pretty clear cut showcase of how this is not, in fact, a fact. > I think they both contributed to the tragedy. "Between me and Jeff Bezos we are worth several hundred billion dollars". The ICE agent contributed the bullets that made this a tragedy, the victim contributed not following the orders of people who are not police officers, I'd say it's not much of a "both" situation. > Nobody protesting peacefully gets shot. At least one person already has, but something tells me you'll just move the goalpost of what "peacefully" means.
      - RickJWagner 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        dctoedt 8mo ago
        > Vehicular assault protest is dangerous and illegal protest. You need to watch the video compilation linked to above. It wasn't anything resembling "vehicular assault protest" — it was a woman trying to verrrry slowwwwly drive away and an armed ICE agent shooting her when his feet slipped.
    - mindslight 8mo ago
      It's a peculiar type of insanity to insist that it is the responsibility of everyday citizens to react perfectly calmly and rationally while being assaulted by armed agents of the state (themselves often acting impulsively and aggressively), and to then justify people being summarily executed when they inevitably do not. Furthermore, it's disingenuous to talk about "unlawful behavior" while skipping over the federal government violating the much deeper laws that were explicitly written into its charter. If you want to keep closing your eyes to what is plainly in front of you, that is on you.
- simianparrot 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - dctoedt 8mo ago
    See my edited comment, with a link to the NY Times's frame-by-frame, time-synced compilation of various video angles. She didn't run over him or even hit him.
    - hackable_sand 8mo ago
      They don't care Nazi sympathizers don't care about facts
      - dctoedt 8mo ago
        I know. But being nasty to (him?) would just make it that much less likely that he’d ever see things in a different light someday.
        deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
        plagiarist 8mo ago
        The only thing that seems to change minds is when it happens to them or their family.
        deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
        hackable_sand 8mo ago
        That day is right now There are no second chances
    - simianparrot 8mo ago
      It only takes that to be a «nazi» sympathiser huh. And my comment flagged. You might need to go read up on what the nazis were like. I’m in Europe. We _really_ know what the nazis were like — they occupied my country. I live in a street named after resistance fighters who died fighting them. You’re extremely naive and disrespectful of the victims of the nazis.
- like_any_other 8mo ago
  The top-right video of your first link, at the 47-55 second time mark, literally shows her car hitting him.
  - dctoedt 8mo ago
    That's not how it looks to me. Her vehicle seems to come close and might even touch the agent's leg — maybe (the narration says no). But "hitting him" doesn't seem to be a reasonable way to describe it, even granting that the video clip is in slow motion. https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=xdxZIHQGODS9fB3e&t=323 https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=xdxZIHQGODS9fB3e&t=323
    - like_any_other 8mo ago
      The agent was leaning significantly forward, and suddenly acquired backwards momentum just when the car got close, despite his center of mass being in front of his feet. The only way he could move like that was by getting hit by the car.
      - dctoedt 8mo ago
        > The only way he could move like that was by getting hit by the car. He had a hand braced on the left-front fender and was leaning against it, with his feet maybe a yard away — apparently on icy pavement. The vehicle could well have pushed him as it moved; that's not the same as hitting him.
        like_any_other 8mo ago
        So she rapidly accelerated at him, and her car pushed him away, either by hitting his torso or his arm. And that in the 1-2 seconds the agent had to figure out her actions and intent, he arguably made the wrong call, is rephrased as: "Speech is disallowed if someone with any authority feels like killing you"
        dctoedt 8mo ago