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Could say the same thing about people working on neovim

by benatkin 8mo ago

logicprog 8mo ago
NeoVim has a fundamentally better architecture and healthier ecosystem.
- benatkin 8mo ago
  But they're separate highly maintained projects, and there will always be tradeoffs. It's like saying that Ubuntu is better than Debian, or that Fedora is better than RockyLinux.
  - aldanor 8mo ago
    Honestly curious, what are the tradeoffs with vim9 / vimscript?
    - jitl 8mo ago
      well the library ecosystem, developer tooling, and gradual typing support for lua is far ahead of what’s available for vimscript. in my experience lua is #2 behind javascript/typescript’s #1 when it comes to scripting language LSP stuff. both python and ruby suffer from a profusion of alternative type checkers and whatnot that cause pain and fragmentation when it comes to tooling. it’s pretty great to have my vimconfig give red squiggle in editor if i’m doing it wrong before i save & reload. but i’ve not followed vim9 script as its evolved perhaps there’s a good type checker for it at this point? even before neovim, there were vim extensions written in lua so it feels gravity of lua code has been considerable for a long time. to me vim9script feels like perl5/raku split - evolution too late to grow new users, a remnant for a niche that will fade to oblivion slowly over the next 10 years.
      - toxik 8mo ago
        Oh man imagine if NeoVim had been TypeScript. I would've switched then.
        jitl 8mo ago
        well the lua setup has enough type checker going on that’s it’s really useful, besides language familiarity i honestly don’t miss much; there’s great docs and autocomplete for the lua stuff built in to the lazynvim distro.
        arccy 8mo ago
        neovim does have some support for nodejs plugins through its providers https://neovim.io/doc/user/provider.html#_node.js-integration https://neovim.io/doc/user/provider.html#_node.js-integratio...
      - skydhash 8mo ago
        With vim9, just like C and perl, the focus is to write small programs. And you don't need a typechecker if your program is only a few hundreds lines. And locality of behavior is at most one screen tall. For scripting languages, I'd rather a good documentation system (vim, emacs,..) than having a full lsp client in the background.
- wraith_cz 8mo ago
  Maybe, but Vim has tradition and backward compatibility, a better target, and fast vim9script. Neovim doesn't suit me. The aggressiveness of Neovim users constantly surprises me. Go to the Neovim forum and leave me alone. I don't go to Neovim forums to convince users that Vim is better.
  - mos87 8mo ago
    Yet you just went and created a new (burner?) acc just to post this absolute tripe here.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
latexr 8mo ago
Technically, Neovim started because the author wanted to add multi-threading to Vim but the patch was rejected. So they did try to contribuir to Vim first. Not that I agree with your parent comment or anything (I don’t), I use Helix so don’t really have a dog in this fight, I think it’s fine for them all to coexist.
- aniviacat 8mo ago
  Do you know why it was rejected?
  - worldsavior 8mo ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7279358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7279358
    - mos87 8mo ago
      Some good context...
  - latexr 8mo ago
    It’s been too long, I no longer recall specifics. Wikipedia links to the patch’s discussion on Google Groups, if you care to read it. https://groups.google.com/g/vim_dev/c/65jjGqS1_VQ/m/fFiFrrIBwNAJ https://groups.google.com/g/vim_dev/c/65jjGqS1_VQ/m/fFiFrrIB... Vim 8 did add support for asynchronous jobs, due to the pressure of Neovim fork. https://lwn.net/Articles/713114/ https://lwn.net/Articles/713114/
    - mos87 8mo ago
      And did so in its (or rather Bram's) own, incompatible with Neovim way. I imagine that's the biggest problem with Vim why Neovim was even created - hardcore NIH syndrome of Vim's main author.

Could say the same thing about people working on neovim

logicprog 8mo ago

NeoVim has a fundamentally better architecture and healthier ecosystem.

benatkin 8mo ago
But they're separate highly maintained projects, and there will always be tradeoffs. It's like saying that Ubuntu is better than Debian, or that Fedora is better than RockyLinux.
- aldanor 8mo ago
  Honestly curious, what are the tradeoffs with vim9 / vimscript?
  - jitl 8mo ago
    well the library ecosystem, developer tooling, and gradual typing support for lua is far ahead of what’s available for vimscript. in my experience lua is #2 behind javascript/typescript’s #1 when it comes to scripting language LSP stuff. both python and ruby suffer from a profusion of alternative type checkers and whatnot that cause pain and fragmentation when it comes to tooling. it’s pretty great to have my vimconfig give red squiggle in editor if i’m doing it wrong before i save & reload. but i’ve not followed vim9 script as its evolved perhaps there’s a good type checker for it at this point? even before neovim, there were vim extensions written in lua so it feels gravity of lua code has been considerable for a long time. to me vim9script feels like perl5/raku split - evolution too late to grow new users, a remnant for a niche that will fade to oblivion slowly over the next 10 years.
    - toxik 8mo ago
      Oh man imagine if NeoVim had been TypeScript. I would've switched then.
      - jitl 8mo ago
        well the lua setup has enough type checker going on that’s it’s really useful, besides language familiarity i honestly don’t miss much; there’s great docs and autocomplete for the lua stuff built in to the lazynvim distro.
      - arccy 8mo ago
        neovim does have some support for nodejs plugins through its providers https://neovim.io/doc/user/provider.html#_node.js-integration https://neovim.io/doc/user/provider.html#_node.js-integratio...
    - skydhash 8mo ago
      With vim9, just like C and perl, the focus is to write small programs. And you don't need a typechecker if your program is only a few hundreds lines. And locality of behavior is at most one screen tall. For scripting languages, I'd rather a good documentation system (vim, emacs,..) than having a full lsp client in the background.
wraith_cz 8mo ago
Maybe, but Vim has tradition and backward compatibility, a better target, and fast vim9script. Neovim doesn't suit me. The aggressiveness of Neovim users constantly surprises me. Go to the Neovim forum and leave me alone. I don't go to Neovim forums to convince users that Vim is better.
- mos87 8mo ago
  Yet you just went and created a new (burner?) acc just to post this absolute tripe here.

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

latexr 8mo ago

Technically, Neovim started because the author wanted to add multi-threading to Vim but the patch was rejected. So they did try to contribuir to Vim first. Not that I agree with your parent comment or anything (I don’t), I use Helix so don’t really have a dog in this fight, I think it’s fine for them all to coexist.

aniviacat 8mo ago
Do you know why it was rejected?
- worldsavior 8mo ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7279358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7279358
  - mos87 8mo ago
    Some good context...
- latexr 8mo ago
  It’s been too long, I no longer recall specifics. Wikipedia links to the patch’s discussion on Google Groups, if you care to read it. https://groups.google.com/g/vim_dev/c/65jjGqS1_VQ/m/fFiFrrIBwNAJ https://groups.google.com/g/vim_dev/c/65jjGqS1_VQ/m/fFiFrrIB... Vim 8 did add support for asynchronous jobs, due to the pressure of Neovim fork. https://lwn.net/Articles/713114/ https://lwn.net/Articles/713114/
  - mos87 8mo ago
    And did so in its (or rather Bram's) own, incompatible with Neovim way. I imagine that's the biggest problem with Vim why Neovim was even created - hardcore NIH syndrome of Vim's main author.