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And I would argue that they have been able to do this because a small group of private individuals control the information networks and either desired that purp

And I would argue that they have been able to do this because a small group of private individuals control the information networks and either desired that purpose or are ambivalent to their cause in it. The potential failure of the system because of the effect of the wrong choice in this matter is evidence in favor of my argument, not against it.

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
I’m continuously astounded by people who want to give the government more power seeing the current state of the US government.
- Eisenstein 8mo ago
  You aren't amazed at how people advocating for privatizing things that are supposed to be for the public good keep doubling down when it doesn't work out? We couldn't be in the place we are if it weren't for those who constantly yelled 'smaller government!' while dismantling all features of accountability and balance of power in order to achieve that end.
  - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
    Well the difference is that a private company doesn’t have a full army, masked jack booted thugs who shoot people with abandon with “qualified immunity” and the legal right of force to take away my property without a trial (civil forfeiture) or prosecute me because they don’t like me (see the current administration). They also can’t stop me because I don’t “look like I belong” in my neighborhood (true story). I’d rather not give the government any more power.
    - Eisenstein 8mo ago
      But everyone has been listening to your argument and doing what you are advocating for since Reagan and yet here we are. Have you every thought about the fact that power doesn't just disappear? Someone is going to have control over the jackbooted thugs. Claiming democratic norms and public control over them is bad just ensures that they become the tools of a few people without any way to constrain them. I'm sorry you had a bad experience and that we are currently having one as a country, but the solution is to push for more democracy, not more privatization.
      - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
        You know it’s literally in the constitution - the idea of a free press. If the money to keep the press in business, who keeps the government accountable? And to pretend like the US is a democracy where the popular vote matters completely ignores reality. Every state gets two Senators so South Dakota has the same voting power in the Senate as California. The house districts are so gerrymandered that the sum total of Democratic votes will always be less than their share of the house since it is so easy to dilute Democrats voting power since they live in major cities. So if you want to push for a more (small d) democratic government, you’re going to first have to overall the entire constitution so the largest states population’s aren’t diluted. And I posted a link earlier that the government has literally been trying to defund PBS since the 1960a and Mr. Rogers himself had to beg Congress not to defund it. Right now today the federal government is erasing any signs of anything in museums and national parks that doesn’t make the US look good or admit that gay people exist. This is the government you want controlling the press?
        deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
        Eisenstein 8mo ago
        > You know it’s literally in the constitution - the idea of a free press. If the money to keep the press in business, who keeps the government accountable? The constitution doesn't say anything about whether the government can fund media. > And to pretend like the US is a democracy where the popular vote matters completely ignores reality. No one made that claim. In fact, no one claimed that popular vote was even a good standard for a democracy. Is your assertion that the solution to an imperfect system is not to try and reform it, but to rely on a worse one? > So if you want to push for a more (small d) democratic government, you’re going to first have to overall the entire constitution so the largest states population’s aren’t diluted. I don't know if that's the answer to the nation's problems, but it is worthy of consideration. > And I posted a link earlier that the government has literally been trying to defund PBS since the 1960a and Mr. Rogers himself had to beg Congress not to defund it. The government is not a unified monolith. The whole point of democracy is that everything is being debated all the time and sometimes people don't agree and try to stop or changes things that others did. That's a good thing. > Right now today the federal government is erasing any signs of anything in museums and national parks that doesn’t make the US look good or admit that gay people exist. This is the government you want controlling the press? I think that's bad, and hopefully enough other people do so that we can vote out the people who are doing that and restore things to how they were.

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago

I’m continuously astounded by people who want to give the government more power seeing the current state of the US government.

Eisenstein 8mo ago
You aren't amazed at how people advocating for privatizing things that are supposed to be for the public good keep doubling down when it doesn't work out? We couldn't be in the place we are if it weren't for those who constantly yelled 'smaller government!' while dismantling all features of accountability and balance of power in order to achieve that end.
- raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
  Well the difference is that a private company doesn’t have a full army, masked jack booted thugs who shoot people with abandon with “qualified immunity” and the legal right of force to take away my property without a trial (civil forfeiture) or prosecute me because they don’t like me (see the current administration). They also can’t stop me because I don’t “look like I belong” in my neighborhood (true story). I’d rather not give the government any more power.
  - Eisenstein 8mo ago
    But everyone has been listening to your argument and doing what you are advocating for since Reagan and yet here we are. Have you every thought about the fact that power doesn't just disappear? Someone is going to have control over the jackbooted thugs. Claiming democratic norms and public control over them is bad just ensures that they become the tools of a few people without any way to constrain them. I'm sorry you had a bad experience and that we are currently having one as a country, but the solution is to push for more democracy, not more privatization.
    - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
      You know it’s literally in the constitution - the idea of a free press. If the money to keep the press in business, who keeps the government accountable? And to pretend like the US is a democracy where the popular vote matters completely ignores reality. Every state gets two Senators so South Dakota has the same voting power in the Senate as California. The house districts are so gerrymandered that the sum total of Democratic votes will always be less than their share of the house since it is so easy to dilute Democrats voting power since they live in major cities. So if you want to push for a more (small d) democratic government, you’re going to first have to overall the entire constitution so the largest states population’s aren’t diluted. And I posted a link earlier that the government has literally been trying to defund PBS since the 1960a and Mr. Rogers himself had to beg Congress not to defund it. Right now today the federal government is erasing any signs of anything in museums and national parks that doesn’t make the US look good or admit that gay people exist. This is the government you want controlling the press?
      - deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
      - Eisenstein 8mo ago
        > You know it’s literally in the constitution - the idea of a free press. If the money to keep the press in business, who keeps the government accountable? The constitution doesn't say anything about whether the government can fund media. > And to pretend like the US is a democracy where the popular vote matters completely ignores reality. No one made that claim. In fact, no one claimed that popular vote was even a good standard for a democracy. Is your assertion that the solution to an imperfect system is not to try and reform it, but to rely on a worse one? > So if you want to push for a more (small d) democratic government, you’re going to first have to overall the entire constitution so the largest states population’s aren’t diluted. I don't know if that's the answer to the nation's problems, but it is worthy of consideration. > And I posted a link earlier that the government has literally been trying to defund PBS since the 1960a and Mr. Rogers himself had to beg Congress not to defund it. The government is not a unified monolith. The whole point of democracy is that everything is being debated all the time and sometimes people don't agree and try to stop or changes things that others did. That's a good thing. > Right now today the federal government is erasing any signs of anything in museums and national parks that doesn’t make the US look good or admit that gay people exist. This is the government you want controlling the press? I think that's bad, and hopefully enough other people do so that we can vote out the people who are doing that and restore things to how they were.