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Friend, if you followed Snowden's saga at all, you would know that those events don't need to be similar to be relevant to the discussion at hand. In other word

Friend, if you followed Snowden's saga at all, you would know that those events don't need to be similar to be relevant to the discussion at hand. In other words, just because you have a problem with Trump, does not mean the two issues are not connected.

throwawayq3423 9mo ago
Who was imprisoned for their speech against the US president by Obama and how did Snowden stop that? Because that is exactly what we're talking about here. And if you don't have a like-for-like comparison, then we have nothing to discuss.
- iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
  If you think for a moment of arguing that throwing people in jail is the only way to impede someone's liberty, you are in for a world of a surprise.
  - throwawayq3423 9mo ago
    It's the standard we're discussing. It's what Donald Trump's DHS is doing right now and the Snowden comparisons are irrelevant and imo a bad faith attempt at trying to muddy the waters. Stop both sides-ing everything the Trump administration does to give them more oxygen to operate. These are uniquely awful times.
    - iugtmkbdfil834 8mo ago
      << Stop both sides-ing everything the Trump administration does to give them more oxygen to operate. Friendo,the sooner you recognize it is both sides, the sooner you can step off the merry go round.
      - throwawayq3423 8mo ago
        One more try, what did Obama in terms of abusing his police state targeting American citizens that even approached what we are seeing with ICE, the FBI, etc. right now.
        iugtmkbdfil834 8mo ago
        Hmm. You are putting me in quite a pickle, but I can't tell if you are being serious or not. Obama was almost literally Bush 2.0, but with better PR and media coverage. Fuck man. Here is a short list of how he explictly expanded police state that impacted actual American citizens ( and not random criminal aliens ICE picks up ): - Targetted killing of US citizen without a trial via drone strike ( Anwar al-Awlaki ) - Signed 2012 NDAA with 'indefinite detention' provisions - Extended Patriot ACT in 2011 - Re-authorized FISA in 2012 - Defended post-Snowden NSA metadata collection - Seized reporter's property in leak investigation edit: - 'fast and furious' which effectively created a problem, which at best can be considered reckless if not planned and pretty evil if actually intended to work the way it did Seriously man, unless you literally just started observing politics, you may want to reconsider your high horse stance.
        throwawayq3423 8mo ago
        > Targetted killing of US citizen without a trial via drone strike ( Anwar al-Awlaki ) This was in a literal war zone against a man who literally declared war on the United States. > Signed 2012 NDAA with 'indefinite detention' provisions Didn't answer my question. This law targeted terrorists, not mothers of two, driving home from dropping their kids off at school. > Extended Patriot ACT in 2011 - Re-authorized FISA in 2012 Didn't answer my question. > Defended post-Snowden NSA metadata collection Didn't answer my question. > Seized reporter's property in leak investigation This appears to be an actual leak investigation done by the DOJ. I don't recall these journalists being arrested, denied a lawyer, etc. I can't find any evidence that this was a legitimate leak investigation done in accordance with the law. > 'fast and furious' Reminder, we are talking about domestic surveillance and illegal detainment for political purposes. Donald Trump has over 6,000 habeas corpus violations working their way through the court system in America right now. Obama had < 10 in 8 years. He is detaining U.S. citizens without cause, without explanation, and subjecting them to torturous conditions. Your attempt to say both sides are the same is clearly an attempt to sound intelligent like you're above the discourse. You're not.

throwawayq3423 9mo ago

Who was imprisoned for their speech against the US president by Obama and how did Snowden stop that? Because that is exactly what we're talking about here. And if you don't have a like-for-like comparison, then we have nothing to discuss.

iugtmkbdfil834 9mo ago
If you think for a moment of arguing that throwing people in jail is the only way to impede someone's liberty, you are in for a world of a surprise.
- throwawayq3423 9mo ago
  It's the standard we're discussing. It's what Donald Trump's DHS is doing right now and the Snowden comparisons are irrelevant and imo a bad faith attempt at trying to muddy the waters. Stop both sides-ing everything the Trump administration does to give them more oxygen to operate. These are uniquely awful times.
  - iugtmkbdfil834 8mo ago
    << Stop both sides-ing everything the Trump administration does to give them more oxygen to operate. Friendo,the sooner you recognize it is both sides, the sooner you can step off the merry go round.
    - throwawayq3423 8mo ago
      One more try, what did Obama in terms of abusing his police state targeting American citizens that even approached what we are seeing with ICE, the FBI, etc. right now.
      - iugtmkbdfil834 8mo ago
        Hmm. You are putting me in quite a pickle, but I can't tell if you are being serious or not. Obama was almost literally Bush 2.0, but with better PR and media coverage. Fuck man. Here is a short list of how he explictly expanded police state that impacted actual American citizens ( and not random criminal aliens ICE picks up ): - Targetted killing of US citizen without a trial via drone strike ( Anwar al-Awlaki ) - Signed 2012 NDAA with 'indefinite detention' provisions - Extended Patriot ACT in 2011 - Re-authorized FISA in 2012 - Defended post-Snowden NSA metadata collection - Seized reporter's property in leak investigation edit: - 'fast and furious' which effectively created a problem, which at best can be considered reckless if not planned and pretty evil if actually intended to work the way it did Seriously man, unless you literally just started observing politics, you may want to reconsider your high horse stance.
        throwawayq3423 8mo ago
        > Targetted killing of US citizen without a trial via drone strike ( Anwar al-Awlaki ) This was in a literal war zone against a man who literally declared war on the United States. > Signed 2012 NDAA with 'indefinite detention' provisions Didn't answer my question. This law targeted terrorists, not mothers of two, driving home from dropping their kids off at school. > Extended Patriot ACT in 2011 - Re-authorized FISA in 2012 Didn't answer my question. > Defended post-Snowden NSA metadata collection Didn't answer my question. > Seized reporter's property in leak investigation This appears to be an actual leak investigation done by the DOJ. I don't recall these journalists being arrested, denied a lawyer, etc. I can't find any evidence that this was a legitimate leak investigation done in accordance with the law. > 'fast and furious' Reminder, we are talking about domestic surveillance and illegal detainment for political purposes. Donald Trump has over 6,000 habeas corpus violations working their way through the court system in America right now. Obama had < 10 in 8 years. He is detaining U.S. citizens without cause, without explanation, and subjecting them to torturous conditions. Your attempt to say both sides are the same is clearly an attempt to sound intelligent like you're above the discourse. You're not.