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Edward Snowden had stolen the most sensitive classified secrets from The United States Intelligence Community and Donald Trump is looking to squash dissent of h

Edward Snowden had stolen the most sensitive classified secrets from The United States Intelligence Community and Donald Trump is looking to squash dissent of his attempts to nullify the Constitution and establish a dictatorship. I get what you're saying, but please have some perspective. the two things are not even remotely similar.

iugtmkbdfil834 8mo ago
Friend, if you followed Snowden's saga at all, you would know that those events don't need to be similar to be relevant to the discussion at hand. In other words, just because you have a problem with Trump, does not mean the two issues are not connected.
- throwawayq3423 8mo ago
  Who was imprisoned for their speech against the US president by Obama and how did Snowden stop that? Because that is exactly what we're talking about here. And if you don't have a like-for-like comparison, then we have nothing to discuss.
  - iugtmkbdfil834 8mo ago
    If you think for a moment of arguing that throwing people in jail is the only way to impede someone's liberty, you are in for a world of a surprise.
    - throwawayq3423 8mo ago
      It's the standard we're discussing. It's what Donald Trump's DHS is doing right now and the Snowden comparisons are irrelevant and imo a bad faith attempt at trying to muddy the waters. Stop both sides-ing everything the Trump administration does to give them more oxygen to operate. These are uniquely awful times.
      - iugtmkbdfil834 8mo ago
        << Stop both sides-ing everything the Trump administration does to give them more oxygen to operate. Friendo,the sooner you recognize it is both sides, the sooner you can step off the merry go round.
        throwawayq3423 8mo ago
        One more try, what did Obama in terms of abusing his police state targeting American citizens that even approached what we are seeing with ICE, the FBI, etc. right now.
        iugtmkbdfil834 8mo ago
        Hmm. You are putting me in quite a pickle, but I can't tell if you are being serious or not. Obama was almost literally Bush 2.0, but with better PR and media coverage. Fuck man. Here is a short list of how he explictly expanded police state that impacted actual American citizens ( and not random criminal aliens ICE picks up ): - Targetted killing of US citizen without a trial via drone strike ( Anwar al-Awlaki ) - Signed 2012 NDAA with 'indefinite detention' provisions - Extended Patriot ACT in 2011 - Re-authorized FISA in 2012 - Defended post-Snowden NSA metadata collection - Seized reporter's property in leak investigation edit: - 'fast and furious' which effectively created a problem, which at best can be considered reckless if not planned and pretty evil if actually intended to work the way it did Seriously man, unless you literally just started observing politics, you may want to reconsider your high horse stance.
        throwawayq3423 8mo ago
        > Targetted killing of US citizen without a trial via drone strike ( Anwar al-Awlaki ) This was in a literal war zone against a man who literally declared war on the United States. > Signed 2012 NDAA with 'indefinite detention' provisions Didn't answer my question. This law targeted terrorists, not mothers of two, driving home from dropping their kids off at school. > Extended Patriot ACT in 2011 - Re-authorized FISA in 2012 Didn't answer my question. > Defended post-Snowden NSA metadata collection Didn't answer my question. > Seized reporter's property in leak investigation This appears to be an actual leak investigation done by the DOJ. I don't recall these journalists being arrested, denied a lawyer, etc. I can't find any evidence that this was a legitimate leak investigation done in accordance with the law. > 'fast and furious' Reminder, we are talking about domestic surveillance and illegal detainment for political purposes. Donald Trump has over 6,000 habeas corpus violations working their way through the court system in America right now. Obama had < 10 in 8 years. He is detaining U.S. citizens without cause, without explanation, and subjecting them to torturous conditions. Your attempt to say both sides are the same is clearly an attempt to sound intelligent like you're above the discourse. You're not.
tehjoker 8mo ago
What they did to snowden was illegitimate but at least they had the cover that he was an insider that had signed a contract with the government. They are going after random ass people expressing a 1A opinion now. Legally very different ballgames even though both dissenters are correct to voice their opinions and knowledge and should not have been pursued for objecting to extravagant government wrongdoing.
monocasa 8mo ago
To be fair, those sensitive secrets included secret, unconstitutional, dragnet surveillance programs targeting american citizens, and the fact that the director of national intelligence had perjured himself during congressional hearings on those programs.
- throwawayq3423 8mo ago
  Less than 1% of what Snowden took and leaked pertained to domestic surveillance programs, The rest was intelligence capabilities and sources and methods. But that's besides the point. There is a real argument that the U.S. government, in trying to catch Snowden, was protecting national security. There is no such argument with Trump.
  - esseph 8mo ago
    > was protecting national security No, it was retribution. The info was already out there when they were going after him. Even if he stayed in the US and was captured, it still wouldn't have "stopped" anything.
    - throwawayq3423 8mo ago
      > The info was already out there when they were going after him. This was of course not known at the time. The only thing that was known is that a single individual was responsible for the greatest breach of classified secrets in the nation's history, and that individual was still at large. > was protecting national security So yes, it was.
      - esseph 8mo ago
        The federal government was found violating the constitution, and yet he's the bad guy. Nonsense.
        throwawayq3423 8mo ago
        > The federal government was found violating the constitution This was of course not known at the time.
esseph 8mo ago
> I get what you're saying, but please have some perspective. the two things are not even remotely similar. Snowden sacrificed a comfortable life, his friends, and family to tell the American people they were being lied to. He exposed things that people SHOULD HAVE gone to prison for. Snowden is a hero, period.
- throwawayq3423 8mo ago
  > Snowden sacrificed a comfortable life Yes and all he had to gain was international celebrity. Please understand the role that ego plays in actions such as this.

iugtmkbdfil834 8mo ago

Friend, if you followed Snowden's saga at all, you would know that those events don't need to be similar to be relevant to the discussion at hand. In other words, just because you have a problem with Trump, does not mean the two issues are not connected.

throwawayq3423 8mo ago
Who was imprisoned for their speech against the US president by Obama and how did Snowden stop that? Because that is exactly what we're talking about here. And if you don't have a like-for-like comparison, then we have nothing to discuss.
- iugtmkbdfil834 8mo ago
  If you think for a moment of arguing that throwing people in jail is the only way to impede someone's liberty, you are in for a world of a surprise.
  - throwawayq3423 8mo ago
    It's the standard we're discussing. It's what Donald Trump's DHS is doing right now and the Snowden comparisons are irrelevant and imo a bad faith attempt at trying to muddy the waters. Stop both sides-ing everything the Trump administration does to give them more oxygen to operate. These are uniquely awful times.
    - iugtmkbdfil834 8mo ago
      << Stop both sides-ing everything the Trump administration does to give them more oxygen to operate. Friendo,the sooner you recognize it is both sides, the sooner you can step off the merry go round.
      - throwawayq3423 8mo ago
        One more try, what did Obama in terms of abusing his police state targeting American citizens that even approached what we are seeing with ICE, the FBI, etc. right now.
        iugtmkbdfil834 8mo ago
        Hmm. You are putting me in quite a pickle, but I can't tell if you are being serious or not. Obama was almost literally Bush 2.0, but with better PR and media coverage. Fuck man. Here is a short list of how he explictly expanded police state that impacted actual American citizens ( and not random criminal aliens ICE picks up ): - Targetted killing of US citizen without a trial via drone strike ( Anwar al-Awlaki ) - Signed 2012 NDAA with 'indefinite detention' provisions - Extended Patriot ACT in 2011 - Re-authorized FISA in 2012 - Defended post-Snowden NSA metadata collection - Seized reporter's property in leak investigation edit: - 'fast and furious' which effectively created a problem, which at best can be considered reckless if not planned and pretty evil if actually intended to work the way it did Seriously man, unless you literally just started observing politics, you may want to reconsider your high horse stance.
        throwawayq3423 8mo ago
        > Targetted killing of US citizen without a trial via drone strike ( Anwar al-Awlaki ) This was in a literal war zone against a man who literally declared war on the United States. > Signed 2012 NDAA with 'indefinite detention' provisions Didn't answer my question. This law targeted terrorists, not mothers of two, driving home from dropping their kids off at school. > Extended Patriot ACT in 2011 - Re-authorized FISA in 2012 Didn't answer my question. > Defended post-Snowden NSA metadata collection Didn't answer my question. > Seized reporter's property in leak investigation This appears to be an actual leak investigation done by the DOJ. I don't recall these journalists being arrested, denied a lawyer, etc. I can't find any evidence that this was a legitimate leak investigation done in accordance with the law. > 'fast and furious' Reminder, we are talking about domestic surveillance and illegal detainment for political purposes. Donald Trump has over 6,000 habeas corpus violations working their way through the court system in America right now. Obama had < 10 in 8 years. He is detaining U.S. citizens without cause, without explanation, and subjecting them to torturous conditions. Your attempt to say both sides are the same is clearly an attempt to sound intelligent like you're above the discourse. You're not.

tehjoker 8mo ago

What they did to snowden was illegitimate but at least they had the cover that he was an insider that had signed a contract with the government. They are going after random ass people expressing a 1A opinion now. Legally very different ballgames even though both dissenters are correct to voice their opinions and knowledge and should not have been pursued for objecting to extravagant government wrongdoing.

monocasa 8mo ago

To be fair, those sensitive secrets included secret, unconstitutional, dragnet surveillance programs targeting american citizens, and the fact that the director of national intelligence had perjured himself during congressional hearings on those programs.

throwawayq3423 8mo ago
Less than 1% of what Snowden took and leaked pertained to domestic surveillance programs, The rest was intelligence capabilities and sources and methods. But that's besides the point. There is a real argument that the U.S. government, in trying to catch Snowden, was protecting national security. There is no such argument with Trump.
- esseph 8mo ago
  > was protecting national security No, it was retribution. The info was already out there when they were going after him. Even if he stayed in the US and was captured, it still wouldn't have "stopped" anything.
  - throwawayq3423 8mo ago
    > The info was already out there when they were going after him. This was of course not known at the time. The only thing that was known is that a single individual was responsible for the greatest breach of classified secrets in the nation's history, and that individual was still at large. > was protecting national security So yes, it was.
    - esseph 8mo ago
      The federal government was found violating the constitution, and yet he's the bad guy. Nonsense.
      - throwawayq3423 8mo ago
        > The federal government was found violating the constitution This was of course not known at the time.

esseph 8mo ago

> I get what you're saying, but please have some perspective. the two things are not even remotely similar. Snowden sacrificed a comfortable life, his friends, and family to tell the American people they were being lied to. He exposed things that people SHOULD HAVE gone to prison for. Snowden is a hero, period.

throwawayq3423 8mo ago
> Snowden sacrificed a comfortable life Yes and all he had to gain was international celebrity. Please understand the role that ego plays in actions such as this.