3 ms·

ive employed the laymans heuristic that if you die with covid it is most likely what killed you, the comorbidities don't matter to me. on the surface your exces

ive employed the laymans heuristic that if you die with covid it is most likely what killed you, the comorbidities don't matter to me. on the surface your excess death metric makes sense but im not convinced and need time to reflect. its too much of a coincidence for me that mrna was not viable until the very moment that it was needed. i vehemently disagree that further testing would have been redundant. moreover the non-mrna covid vaccine by novavax (released to the public less than a year after covid mrna vaccines) has a significantly better safety profile. no, mandatory vaccination of the entire population didnt happen, only the majority of able bodied workers (aka the powerhouse of the economy, hence a bit of rounding occurred when i took artistic liberty). therefore the world could have waited a year, locked down, and not subjected its driving force to deadly peril. this did not occur, consequently the world's workers were forced to suffer so that pharma companies could make money, the world's elderly/immunocompromised could be protected, and goverments could print less money.

rstuart4133 8mo ago
> its too much of a coincidence for me that mrna was not viable until the very moment that it was needed. Shrug. Such things do happen. The history of development of mRNA crosses decades, with many wrong turns. The final tweaks needed to make it work did happen not long before COVID happened on the scene, but as COVID had not been heard of at the time I can't see how that could be have been artificially orchestrated. The mRNA developers did get extraordinarily lucky when a pandemic generate a healthy return on their decades of investment just as it became viable. Having read the history of mRNA, I don't begrudge them their luck. Individuals invested huge amounts of time, took large personal risks (to the extend of being fired for their persistence) in making it happen. Such efforts usually aren't rewarded. > i vehemently disagree that further testing would have been redundant. There was one recorded death to due mRNA COVID vaccines in Australia. Nearly everyone who was vaccinated in the early stages got several doses mRNA. So at the absolute best, more testing could have prevented one death there. But maybe not. Given that, your vehemently disagreement is difficult to understand. > therefore the world could have waited a year, locked down I don't know where you live, but in liberal Western democracies lock downs are problematic. The USA mostly failed at it as did most places. Australia did better, but babies going without food when parents weren't allowed to leave apartments effected with COVID caused a lot of angst even with people who broadly agreed with the direction the government took. Such mistakes are entirely avoidable of course, but when sudden drastic action happens fubar's are inevitable. (And it wasn't that serious because locals who weren't in a locked down zone purchased food out of their own pockets and dropped it off.) The reality is, the enforced of vaccination for some groups of people was much easier for most Australians to swallow than those lock downs, mask mandates, enforced distancing, mandatory tracking apps on your phone, and enforced hand washing. You are in a small minority that thinks otherwise. When you look at the social and economic costs of lock downs vs mRNA vaccines (which history has shown to be very safe), the choice looks to be a no-brainer to me. China did for example did go the lock down route, and were able to enforce it because they aren't a liberal democracy. The outcome by every metric was far worse that Australia, who abandoned lock downs as soon as enough vaccines became available.
- Aeglaecia 8mo ago
  you believe in the timing of this discovery and i don't, we must agree to disagree there. regarding the single recorded death in australia and your assertion that mrna vaccines are very safe, we are commenting beneath an article discussing otherwise, my disagreement is redundant. regarding liberal democracies, the US has recently been executing its own citizens on the street and any government would do the same if deemed in the countrys best interests, it isnt clear why politics matter here. regarding the ease of taking mrna vaccines, it is also easy to swallow cyanide pills. australians live a utopic life in low density housing. seems fairly clear that the average australian would accept mandates unquestioningly, furthermore that an australian lockdown would look a lot different to that of a high density country with a billion-strong population. the reality is that we could have waited 6 months and not caused permanent damage to swathes of our world's future. this wasn't possible to fully predict at the time so i will give some benefit of the doubt. but when trillions are involved, safety of the common man is not the priority. which is also arguably the case when it comes to the gain of function research that initiated this entire situation.
  - rstuart4133 8mo ago
    > regarding the single recorded death in australia and your assertion that mrna vaccines are very safe, we are commenting beneath an article discussing otherwise, my disagreement is redundant. No, we aren't commenting beneath an article discussing dangerous side effects of mRNA vaccines. Granted, the title might make you think that. But the article discusses one side effect: VTT. That side effect was caused by one vaccine: AstraZeneca. It is not an mRNA vaccine. As you noted, our discussion was about mRNA vaccines being responsible for a single recorded death, despite heavy use. AstraZeneca caused 8 or 11 deaths in Australia, depending on who you believe, yet distribution was limited. > australians live a utopic life in low density housing. It's true many Australians do live in low density housing. If you're well off I guess it life is pretty good, although I prefer the high density European cities to car centric suburbs. If you aren't so well off no place is a utopia. This summer it hit 48°C in the south. Cooler in Darwin in the north - 39°C, but 90% humidity. Australians get respite from this by going to the shopping centres, the pools or the sea, but you can't do that during a lock down. > seems fairly clear that the average australian would accept mandates unquestioningly, From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_protests_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_protests_in_Australia : "While some protests were peaceful, others ended in clashes between protesters and police." > furthermore that an australian lockdown would look a lot different to that of a high density country with a billion-strong population. Maybe. You spend your time staring at your house walls or watching TV in both places. But as you say, Australian houses are bigger, so the walls would be further away /s

rstuart4133 8mo ago

> its too much of a coincidence for me that mrna was not viable until the very moment that it was needed. Shrug. Such things do happen. The history of development of mRNA crosses decades, with many wrong turns. The final tweaks needed to make it work did happen not long before COVID happened on the scene, but as COVID had not been heard of at the time I can't see how that could be have been artificially orchestrated. The mRNA developers did get extraordinarily lucky when a pandemic generate a healthy return on their decades of investment just as it became viable. Having read the history of mRNA, I don't begrudge them their luck. Individuals invested huge amounts of time, took large personal risks (to the extend of being fired for their persistence) in making it happen. Such efforts usually aren't rewarded. > i vehemently disagree that further testing would have been redundant. There was one recorded death to due mRNA COVID vaccines in Australia. Nearly everyone who was vaccinated in the early stages got several doses mRNA. So at the absolute best, more testing could have prevented one death there. But maybe not. Given that, your vehemently disagreement is difficult to understand. > therefore the world could have waited a year, locked down I don't know where you live, but in liberal Western democracies lock downs are problematic. The USA mostly failed at it as did most places. Australia did better, but babies going without food when parents weren't allowed to leave apartments effected with COVID caused a lot of angst even with people who broadly agreed with the direction the government took. Such mistakes are entirely avoidable of course, but when sudden drastic action happens fubar's are inevitable. (And it wasn't that serious because locals who weren't in a locked down zone purchased food out of their own pockets and dropped it off.) The reality is, the enforced of vaccination for some groups of people was much easier for most Australians to swallow than those lock downs, mask mandates, enforced distancing, mandatory tracking apps on your phone, and enforced hand washing. You are in a small minority that thinks otherwise. When you look at the social and economic costs of lock downs vs mRNA vaccines (which history has shown to be very safe), the choice looks to be a no-brainer to me. China did for example did go the lock down route, and were able to enforce it because they aren't a liberal democracy. The outcome by every metric was far worse that Australia, who abandoned lock downs as soon as enough vaccines became available.

Aeglaecia 8mo ago
you believe in the timing of this discovery and i don't, we must agree to disagree there. regarding the single recorded death in australia and your assertion that mrna vaccines are very safe, we are commenting beneath an article discussing otherwise, my disagreement is redundant. regarding liberal democracies, the US has recently been executing its own citizens on the street and any government would do the same if deemed in the countrys best interests, it isnt clear why politics matter here. regarding the ease of taking mrna vaccines, it is also easy to swallow cyanide pills. australians live a utopic life in low density housing. seems fairly clear that the average australian would accept mandates unquestioningly, furthermore that an australian lockdown would look a lot different to that of a high density country with a billion-strong population. the reality is that we could have waited 6 months and not caused permanent damage to swathes of our world's future. this wasn't possible to fully predict at the time so i will give some benefit of the doubt. but when trillions are involved, safety of the common man is not the priority. which is also arguably the case when it comes to the gain of function research that initiated this entire situation.
- rstuart4133 8mo ago
  > regarding the single recorded death in australia and your assertion that mrna vaccines are very safe, we are commenting beneath an article discussing otherwise, my disagreement is redundant. No, we aren't commenting beneath an article discussing dangerous side effects of mRNA vaccines. Granted, the title might make you think that. But the article discusses one side effect: VTT. That side effect was caused by one vaccine: AstraZeneca. It is not an mRNA vaccine. As you noted, our discussion was about mRNA vaccines being responsible for a single recorded death, despite heavy use. AstraZeneca caused 8 or 11 deaths in Australia, depending on who you believe, yet distribution was limited. > australians live a utopic life in low density housing. It's true many Australians do live in low density housing. If you're well off I guess it life is pretty good, although I prefer the high density European cities to car centric suburbs. If you aren't so well off no place is a utopia. This summer it hit 48°C in the south. Cooler in Darwin in the north - 39°C, but 90% humidity. Australians get respite from this by going to the shopping centres, the pools or the sea, but you can't do that during a lock down. > seems fairly clear that the average australian would accept mandates unquestioningly, From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_protests_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_protests_in_Australia : "While some protests were peaceful, others ended in clashes between protesters and police." > furthermore that an australian lockdown would look a lot different to that of a high density country with a billion-strong population. Maybe. You spend your time staring at your house walls or watching TV in both places. But as you say, Australian houses are bigger, so the walls would be further away /s