3 ms·

If you're not a citizen, you can't vote for the national government. The solution: become a citizen. If you've lived somewhere long enough to lose track of your

If you're not a citizen, you can't vote for the national government. The solution: become a citizen. If you've lived somewhere long enough to lose track of your home country (legally at least), getting citizenship shouldn't be all that hard. The voting pass handed to the author to vote on someone else's behalf clearly states the requirements. A Dutch passport, ID, or driver's license is required. Polling booths are run by volunteers and they have hard enough of a time already checking the validity of Dutch ID, adding 27 other forms of ID will only make it easier to bypass the electoral protections we have. Schengen, the EU, and the EEA may have made working abroad exceptionally easy, but working abroad you're still a guest in another country. If you've lived somewhere long enough to forget to vote in your home country, maybe it's time to reevaluate what your home country really is.

repelsteeltje 9mo ago
> Polling booths are run by volunteers and they have hard enough of a time already checking the validity of Dutch ID, adding 27 other forms of ID will only make it easier to bypass the electoral protections we have. Not sure about this one. For municipal elections in the Netherlands, you need to live in a particular municipal to vote. That means: even non-eu expats are eligible. I have had colleagues with UK, US and Turkish passports that voted (or could have voted) in Amsterdam for local representatives.
- jeroenhd 9mo ago
  They can definitely vote in most local Dutch elections, though that ability differs per EU member state. As long as you have a valid registration with the municipality, you're eligible. The example given wasn't about casting their own vote, though, but voting for someone else by proxy (volmacht). For that, you need to take someone else's voting pass, a copy of their ID (may be expired up to a certain amount of years), and a form of your own, valid, Dutch identification. That last part is where it went wrong: they didn't have valid Dutch ID so the vote by proxy was rejected.
dariosalvi78 9mo ago
but rules for citizenship are all different and are being made harder and harder because, well, that's what sells today. Also some countries (cough, Germany, cough) have incredibly stupid rules where you have to give up your own citizenship in order to get a new one.
- chebureki 9mo ago
  Germany has allowed dual citizenship since June 2024. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Reform_of_2024 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Reform_...
- jeroenhd 9mo ago
  I think it's perfectly normal to expect someone to give up their old citizenship when becoming citizen in a different country. When you become a citizen, that country is responsible for getting you out of international conflicts and arranging passports (which are essentially documents that say "you should let this person in because of the good relationship our two governments have"), and in turn you're expected to turn up for the draft and decide in national policy. There are certainly countries where gaining citizenship is a challenge, but the Dutch terms for EU migrants the minimum requirements ("speaking the language somewhat fluently, having lived there legally for five years, filling out paperwork") aren't that difficult. Getting through the process takes effort, for sure, but it's not the challenge most people in the world will face (the "living in the country legally for five years" part, mostly; without student visas or special deals between your old government and the Dutch government, you're not likely to get a work visa as any random person on earth).
  - cr1895 9mo ago
    In NL the obligation to renounce is pretty arbitrary. There are a number of circumstances where it is allowed to have two nationalities, such as through marriage to a Dutch citizen. It doesn’t make a lot of sense.
  - dariosalvi78 9mo ago
    It's clear to me that you don't have the experience of being an immigrant. There is nothing "normal" in expecting to renounce to a previous citizenship if you gain another one [1]. As an Italian citizen living in Sweden I obtained the Swedish citizenship (fortunately before the current government makes it way harder) but I'd never give up my Italian one. I "feel" Italian and owe my country a lot and my happily go back at some point, but I also feel like having the Swedish citizenship is useful, and allows me to vote in a country where I have chosen to live for a good chunk of my life. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship

repelsteeltje 9mo ago

> Polling booths are run by volunteers and they have hard enough of a time already checking the validity of Dutch ID, adding 27 other forms of ID will only make it easier to bypass the electoral protections we have. Not sure about this one. For municipal elections in the Netherlands, you need to live in a particular municipal to vote. That means: even non-eu expats are eligible. I have had colleagues with UK, US and Turkish passports that voted (or could have voted) in Amsterdam for local representatives.

jeroenhd 9mo ago
They can definitely vote in most local Dutch elections, though that ability differs per EU member state. As long as you have a valid registration with the municipality, you're eligible. The example given wasn't about casting their own vote, though, but voting for someone else by proxy (volmacht). For that, you need to take someone else's voting pass, a copy of their ID (may be expired up to a certain amount of years), and a form of your own, valid, Dutch identification. That last part is where it went wrong: they didn't have valid Dutch ID so the vote by proxy was rejected.

dariosalvi78 9mo ago

but rules for citizenship are all different and are being made harder and harder because, well, that's what sells today. Also some countries (cough, Germany, cough) have incredibly stupid rules where you have to give up your own citizenship in order to get a new one.

chebureki 9mo ago
Germany has allowed dual citizenship since June 2024. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Reform_of_2024 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Reform_...
jeroenhd 9mo ago
I think it's perfectly normal to expect someone to give up their old citizenship when becoming citizen in a different country. When you become a citizen, that country is responsible for getting you out of international conflicts and arranging passports (which are essentially documents that say "you should let this person in because of the good relationship our two governments have"), and in turn you're expected to turn up for the draft and decide in national policy. There are certainly countries where gaining citizenship is a challenge, but the Dutch terms for EU migrants the minimum requirements ("speaking the language somewhat fluently, having lived there legally for five years, filling out paperwork") aren't that difficult. Getting through the process takes effort, for sure, but it's not the challenge most people in the world will face (the "living in the country legally for five years" part, mostly; without student visas or special deals between your old government and the Dutch government, you're not likely to get a work visa as any random person on earth).
- cr1895 9mo ago
  In NL the obligation to renounce is pretty arbitrary. There are a number of circumstances where it is allowed to have two nationalities, such as through marriage to a Dutch citizen. It doesn’t make a lot of sense.
- dariosalvi78 9mo ago
  It's clear to me that you don't have the experience of being an immigrant. There is nothing "normal" in expecting to renounce to a previous citizenship if you gain another one [1]. As an Italian citizen living in Sweden I obtained the Swedish citizenship (fortunately before the current government makes it way harder) but I'd never give up my Italian one. I "feel" Italian and owe my country a lot and my happily go back at some point, but I also feel like having the Swedish citizenship is useful, and allows me to vote in a country where I have chosen to live for a good chunk of my life. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship