7 ms·
This would be a lot stronger argument without the ad hominem bits. He's obviously not so terrible if he created this thing that has people so up in arms. I th
by cdmoyer 14y ago
This would be a lot stronger argument without the ad hominem bits. He's obviously not so terrible if he created this thing that has people so up in arms.
I think there's something to your post, but the tone makes me want to dismiss it. I know, stupid emotions.
This internet lynch mob mentality... I wonder how much this discourages people from releasing things. So, Gruber releases markdown.pl. People like it. People love it. People use it, people reuse it, people rewrite it. Next think you know, he's being insulted on the internet because he released something he wrote to serve his needs and not passing on some sort of figurative mantle or blessing.
- SCdF 14y ago> He's obviously not so terrible if he created this thing that has people so up in arms. Being great at designing a format and writing code are two different things: one can be great at once while being terrible at the other.
- blasdel 14y agoThe perceived simplicity of the format (driven by the naivete of the implementation) played a significant role in making it popular, but lays a minefield of bugs and ambiguities for implementors especially if they want any combination of sanity and interoperability.
- gordonguthrie 14y agoWisest thing in this thread. It is a great format. The original parser (and specification) has serious problems.
- w1ntermute 14y ago> He's obviously not so terrible if he created this thing that has people so up in arms. Oh please, double standards like this disgust me. Microsoft had shit slung at it for years on end by the tech community because IE was terrible and held back innovation on the web, but no one claimed that IE is "not so terrible" just because everyone cared about it. The difference with Gruber is that he's a darling of the tech community because he's Apple-anointed nobility. But as a programmer, in my eyes (and in the eyes of any other objective observers) he's absolute shit.
- squidsoup 14y agoNo, the difference is that Gruber is a person whereas Microsoft is a corporation. Corporations aren't subject to the same social mores - it isn't hurtful to say something nasty about a corporation. Abandoning basic etiquette that you should have learned in primary school and calling someone "absolute shit" is not cool.
- skeletonjelly 14y agoWhile I agree that calling somebody that is not cool, I think you'll find that product owners at corporations do take it to heart when harsh criticisms are called out. They identify with their output.
- erikpukinskis 14y agoThe reason Microsoft is dead to many developers (myself included) is that they used their massive corporate power to shut down good startups making cool stuff. I didn't care that IE was terrible (until v3 or whenever), I cared that Microsoft went to all the major PC manufacturers and told them that their licensing deals were toast if they preloaded Netscape. I didn't care that Word was a crappy word processor, I cared that they used their market position on office documents to make minor incompatibilities that prevented WordPerfect from interoperating. I didn't care that Windows file sharing wasn't half as good as NFS, I care that they continually fucked with the SMB protocol so that no one could sell UNIX machines that could share with Windows networks. It has been an absolute pleasure watching that Microsoft's power over device makers disappear. The world is better off for it, and Microsoft will always be an asshole in my book.
- angersock 14y agoWell thank god we don't have any platform owners today making changes that screw over developers.
- Tloewald 14y agoThere's a differenc between trying to maintain app store policies that strike a balance between security, end user interests, developer interests, profitability, etc. and intentionally putting bugs in your OS to break third party products, stealing third party products and building them into your OS, or bundling free products with your platform or office suite to drive third parties out of a market.
- blasdel 14y agoThe thing is this isn't something new, I and a number of other people have been enraged by this for eight years now. Over those years it's grown in usage exponentially, and so has his fame as a sportswriter for team Apple. Throughout that period he's continued to brush off all kinds of attempts to clean up bugs, define ambiguous behavior, or fix the security vulnerabilities. It hasn't mattered what approach people have taken, he just does not give a shit. Here's an example from last week: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/2012-October/002695.html http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/2012-Octo... He's spent so long burning off any goodwill I would have for him on the matter, being cordial just isn't a priority anymore. NERD RAGE.
- tptacek 14y agoYou've been enraged by the handling of a text-to-HTML converting Perl script written by a tech writer? You're right: he just does not give a shit. I can see why. What possible upside could there be to engaging with someone who handles themselves like you are here?
- stickfigure 14y agoYou've never been enraged by poorly written tools or technologies? There have been times I wished I could reach through my monitor and throttle some well-meaning idiot for wasting hours or days of my time. Imagine that you're a mechanic working on a motor that uses the ProprietaryNew fastener (hex heads? so 20th century!). Unfortunately, the only ProprietaryNew wrenches are made out of cheap metal, and the sockets strip with regularity. You can't imagine saying a few nasty words about the parentage of everyone in ProprietaryNewCo?