5 ms·

American surveillance is one thing. All over Europe people install Chinese IP cameras mostly from paranoic and imaginary reasons. Camera literally facing neighb

American surveillance is one thing. All over Europe people install Chinese IP cameras mostly from paranoic and imaginary reasons. Camera literally facing neighbour's windows and doors and their neighbour's own camera. Nobody understands that it's economically impossible to sell IP camera with a mobile app and cloud storage of video for 150 EUR. Their business model is not simply selling cameras. EDIT. I'm really confused how you concluded that this comment is anti European. Quit whatever drugs and social media if something like this is triggering your paranoia.

omnifischer 8mo ago
All over Europe is generalisation. At least in France, Germany, Switzerland it is too much pain and paperwork to get any camera installed. If you are worried about chinese then seriously you cannot live.
- pjmlp 8mo ago
  In theory, in practice you can get a random one bought from Temu, and unless some neighbour calls in the authorities, no one will know.
- cybrox 8mo ago
  You are technically correct but also very wrong. Yes, it is a lot of pain to get the paperwork done and you have a high chance of being rejected without a good reason. I know dozens of people who run cheap, chinese IP cams recording public spaces directly to dubious cloud services here in Switzerland. You just don't ask. Work related: We sell solutions including CCTV and video-intercom and we have only recently started providing customers with stickers they can use to make those installations comply with regulations. Technically, it has been the responsibility of the customer installing the device, so us doing this is just nudging people towards compliance because nobody cares. I can guarantee you that there are tens of thousands of cameras here filming public ground and it is not prosecuted. In fact, someone at the office put one up a long time ago for a PTZ demo (not recording) that was not compliant and it took almost 10 years until we got ordered to take it down. Most of these are not recording, only recording situationally or only locally. Still not legal technically. However, ever since cheap cloud-connected doorbells have become available, they have definitely been installed here. They do not comply with regulations whatsoever and next to nothing is done about it.
  - omnifischer 8mo ago
    Once you do illegal then that is a different issue. Even if your company does such stuff... the number of cameras per street is far fewer then one sees in the UK or USA.
notrealyme123 8mo ago
Where is this comment coming from? Why Europe? Are those cameras not used in other places? Are they specifically made for Europe? Are there sources? Or is this just a fantasy story?
- pjmlp 8mo ago
  The usual anti-Europe narrative that is starting to be so common over here.
  - herbst 8mo ago
    Weirdly yes. But why is formulated that you can tell it's an American writing text only an American could believe from the first words.
    - lifestyleguru 8mo ago
      [flagged]
      - herbst 8mo ago
        Generalizing Europe this way is almost always American.
        sph 8mo ago
        Also thinking Europe is a monolithic and homogeneous bloc.
  - zorked 8mo ago
    In this case, an anti-Europe and anti-China combo.
- lifestyleguru 8mo ago
  > Are there sources? > Or is this just a fantasy story? People buy them from Ali, Temu, Allegro, eMAG and install all over the place. Simply freaking take a walk and look around.
wiseowise 8mo ago
> Nobody understands that it's economically impossible to sell IP camera with a mobile app and cloud storage of video for 150 EUR. Then maybe those cunts can sell a camera without cloud storage for once? Or the one that connects to local hub, like Chinese cameras do?
lnsru 8mo ago
The camera is absolutely doable for 150€. Just look what raspberry Pi costs. The cut all the corners, take ancient ddr2 memory, ancient processor, optimize every piece for manufacturing and it’s done. Of course, CE testing and regulatory nonsense is not included. But would you buy 150€ camera or the same camera with proper certification for 200€?
- AlexandrB 8mo ago
  What's not doable is the cloud storage and app maintenance for that fixed price.
  - lnsru 8mo ago
    I would speculate about volume. My employer can provide bsp for 5000 sold devices with thin profit. With 1000000 sold cameras it’s different equity and probably enough for not that fancy app.
aweiher 8mo ago
Personally, I know nobody who has the need to install this type of crappy surveillance shit on their front door in Europe to start with. You frame it like the only alternative to American surveillance cameras is Chinese surveillance cameras, but no cameras seems to be no option for you. Who is the one with the paranoid, imaginary reasons? Edit: Ah btw, here in germany we have of course cameras to see who is in front of the door, it is called Türsprechanlage. It does not record, it does sent to the cloud, it is not smart, and is developed and produced in Germany, for example by Siedle.
- lifestyleguru 8mo ago
  I don't understand why all answers make it all about Germany. I say "Europe" and you say "but here in Germany". If you insist on Germany I saw plenty of cheap Chinese IP cameras in Turkish, Arab, and Asian districts of German cities and in tourist hotspots of German cities. Every noodle and kebab place has at least one inside or outside. IP camera, doorbell camera, surveillance camera, call it however you want.

omnifischer 8mo ago

All over Europe is generalisation. At least in France, Germany, Switzerland it is too much pain and paperwork to get any camera installed. If you are worried about chinese then seriously you cannot live.

pjmlp 8mo ago
In theory, in practice you can get a random one bought from Temu, and unless some neighbour calls in the authorities, no one will know.
cybrox 8mo ago
You are technically correct but also very wrong. Yes, it is a lot of pain to get the paperwork done and you have a high chance of being rejected without a good reason. I know dozens of people who run cheap, chinese IP cams recording public spaces directly to dubious cloud services here in Switzerland. You just don't ask. Work related: We sell solutions including CCTV and video-intercom and we have only recently started providing customers with stickers they can use to make those installations comply with regulations. Technically, it has been the responsibility of the customer installing the device, so us doing this is just nudging people towards compliance because nobody cares. I can guarantee you that there are tens of thousands of cameras here filming public ground and it is not prosecuted. In fact, someone at the office put one up a long time ago for a PTZ demo (not recording) that was not compliant and it took almost 10 years until we got ordered to take it down. Most of these are not recording, only recording situationally or only locally. Still not legal technically. However, ever since cheap cloud-connected doorbells have become available, they have definitely been installed here. They do not comply with regulations whatsoever and next to nothing is done about it.
- omnifischer 8mo ago
  Once you do illegal then that is a different issue. Even if your company does such stuff... the number of cameras per street is far fewer then one sees in the UK or USA.

notrealyme123 8mo ago

Where is this comment coming from? Why Europe? Are those cameras not used in other places? Are they specifically made for Europe? Are there sources? Or is this just a fantasy story?

pjmlp 8mo ago
The usual anti-Europe narrative that is starting to be so common over here.
- herbst 8mo ago
  Weirdly yes. But why is formulated that you can tell it's an American writing text only an American could believe from the first words.
  - lifestyleguru 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - herbst 8mo ago
      Generalizing Europe this way is almost always American.
      - sph 8mo ago
        Also thinking Europe is a monolithic and homogeneous bloc.
- zorked 8mo ago
  In this case, an anti-Europe and anti-China combo.
lifestyleguru 8mo ago
> Are there sources? > Or is this just a fantasy story? People buy them from Ali, Temu, Allegro, eMAG and install all over the place. Simply freaking take a walk and look around.

wiseowise 8mo ago

> Nobody understands that it's economically impossible to sell IP camera with a mobile app and cloud storage of video for 150 EUR. Then maybe those cunts can sell a camera without cloud storage for once? Or the one that connects to local hub, like Chinese cameras do?

lnsru 8mo ago

The camera is absolutely doable for 150€. Just look what raspberry Pi costs. The cut all the corners, take ancient ddr2 memory, ancient processor, optimize every piece for manufacturing and it’s done. Of course, CE testing and regulatory nonsense is not included. But would you buy 150€ camera or the same camera with proper certification for 200€?

AlexandrB 8mo ago
What's not doable is the cloud storage and app maintenance for that fixed price.
- lnsru 8mo ago
  I would speculate about volume. My employer can provide bsp for 5000 sold devices with thin profit. With 1000000 sold cameras it’s different equity and probably enough for not that fancy app.

aweiher 8mo ago

Personally, I know nobody who has the need to install this type of crappy surveillance shit on their front door in Europe to start with. You frame it like the only alternative to American surveillance cameras is Chinese surveillance cameras, but no cameras seems to be no option for you. Who is the one with the paranoid, imaginary reasons? Edit: Ah btw, here in germany we have of course cameras to see who is in front of the door, it is called Türsprechanlage. It does not record, it does sent to the cloud, it is not smart, and is developed and produced in Germany, for example by Siedle.

lifestyleguru 8mo ago
I don't understand why all answers make it all about Germany. I say "Europe" and you say "but here in Germany". If you insist on Germany I saw plenty of cheap Chinese IP cameras in Turkish, Arab, and Asian districts of German cities and in tourist hotspots of German cities. Every noodle and kebab place has at least one inside or outside. IP camera, doorbell camera, surveillance camera, call it however you want.