4 ms·

Unless you explicitly enable Advanced Protection mode for all your devices, Apple stores your key in their servers and will give it to whoever legitimate lookin

Unless you explicitly enable Advanced Protection mode for all your devices, Apple stores your key in their servers and will give it to whoever legitimate looking asks for it. Aka ICE etc will definitely be granted access.

nozzlegear 8mo ago
> Unless you explicitly enable Advanced Protection mode for all your devices This is very easy though, you just go to your iCloud account settings under the settings app and enable it. It should be on by default imo, but I understand the argument for why it isn't. Either way, enabling it is not a barrier and ICE cannot be granted access once you do unless you yourself give them that access.
- gib444 8mo ago
  Extremely tricky in the UK (Apple (at the behest of the Gov AFAIK) disabled it)
  - nozzlegear 8mo ago
    Ah my mistake, I forgot they did that.
varenc 8mo ago
I don't think that's true for HomeKit Secure Video (HKSV). Advanced Protection turns on E2EE for various iCloud services like iCloud backups and Apple photos. But HKSV is already E2EE'd and the decryption keys aren't part of the device's iCloud backup. At least that's my understanding. I believe health data and the iCloud keychain is similar.
devStorms 8mo ago
Home data is always E2EE https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651
- akimbostrawman 8mo ago
  Can you point me to the source code i can run on the device? Otherwise it's just another pinky promise for a blackbox by a company that can change at any time even for individual user.
  - Schiendelman 8mo ago
    So basically, you have no evidence that there's an issue but you won't assume anyone isn't lying?
    - akimbostrawman 8mo ago
      Yes i take the billion dollar company with a blackbox is lying over blind trust. and like i said before even if they do not do it now they can at anytime change it for anybody silently.
      - Schiendelman 8mo ago
        I'm suggesting that you can see clear differences in incentives between the big tech companies, paying attention to their business models and the differences in what they claim, in writing, shows you quite a bit of information about how they treat your data. If you decide that everyone is lying to you all the time, you can't build a useful model of objective reality. You just end up frustrated and not taking simple actions you can to make improvements for yourself and others. Don't fall into that trap.
        akimbostrawman 8mo ago
        >If you decide that everyone is lying to you all the time, you can't build a useful model of objective reality I don't assume just know history, PRISM. I don't see how not trusting apple means I can't trust anybody. On hackernews people should know better to trust anything but transparency (source code) which might as well be the dictionary defined opposite of apple.
digiown 8mo ago
I wouldn't trust E2EE implemented by an entity against itself that can also push arbitrary updates in principle. Also, any E2EE product that has a non-E2EE mode seems prone to accidental leaks.

nozzlegear 8mo ago

> Unless you explicitly enable Advanced Protection mode for all your devices This is very easy though, you just go to your iCloud account settings under the settings app and enable it. It should be on by default imo, but I understand the argument for why it isn't. Either way, enabling it is not a barrier and ICE cannot be granted access once you do unless you yourself give them that access.

gib444 8mo ago
Extremely tricky in the UK (Apple (at the behest of the Gov AFAIK) disabled it)
- nozzlegear 8mo ago
  Ah my mistake, I forgot they did that.

varenc 8mo ago

I don't think that's true for HomeKit Secure Video (HKSV). Advanced Protection turns on E2EE for various iCloud services like iCloud backups and Apple photos. But HKSV is already E2EE'd and the decryption keys aren't part of the device's iCloud backup. At least that's my understanding. I believe health data and the iCloud keychain is similar.

devStorms 8mo ago

Home data is always E2EE https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651

akimbostrawman 8mo ago
Can you point me to the source code i can run on the device? Otherwise it's just another pinky promise for a blackbox by a company that can change at any time even for individual user.
- Schiendelman 8mo ago
  So basically, you have no evidence that there's an issue but you won't assume anyone isn't lying?
  - akimbostrawman 8mo ago
    Yes i take the billion dollar company with a blackbox is lying over blind trust. and like i said before even if they do not do it now they can at anytime change it for anybody silently.
    - Schiendelman 8mo ago
      I'm suggesting that you can see clear differences in incentives between the big tech companies, paying attention to their business models and the differences in what they claim, in writing, shows you quite a bit of information about how they treat your data. If you decide that everyone is lying to you all the time, you can't build a useful model of objective reality. You just end up frustrated and not taking simple actions you can to make improvements for yourself and others. Don't fall into that trap.
      - akimbostrawman 8mo ago
        >If you decide that everyone is lying to you all the time, you can't build a useful model of objective reality I don't assume just know history, PRISM. I don't see how not trusting apple means I can't trust anybody. On hackernews people should know better to trust anything but transparency (source code) which might as well be the dictionary defined opposite of apple.

digiown 8mo ago

I wouldn't trust E2EE implemented by an entity against itself that can also push arbitrary updates in principle. Also, any E2EE product that has a non-E2EE mode seems prone to accidental leaks.