4 ms·

It's bad when stock Gnome is better. That's where I am now.

by dgxyz 8mo ago

accrual 8mo ago
Switched to KDE Plasma last month and very pleased I can have square-corner windows again.
- dgxyz 8mo ago
  Corners are great aren't they! :)
- krisknez 8mo ago
  I had a hard time with Gnome but now I got used to it and it's amazing for me. I just can't believe they still haven't implemented scrolling speed setting...
  - jeroenhd 8mo ago
    Gnome had a scroll speed setting but it broke and disappeared somewhere around the switch to Wayland without getting replaced. Gnome says libinput should deal with scroll speed. Libinput says GTK+ should deal with it. Patches have been lying around for both but neither has gained any traction. I like Gnome's DE in general but this issue showcases the rough edges of open source collaboration the Gnome project is infamous for. Even KWin's (original?) implementation of the feature wasn't great and caused issues with applications, apparently: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/merge_requests/4672#note_2164907 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/merge_requests/4672#not... Broken as though it might be, at least they're trying something, which I appreciate more as an end user than the complete lack of scroll settings.
- EnPissant 8mo ago
  KDE plasma is the best DE that exists right now (once you configure it to mimic gnome 2).
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
  - shiroiuma 8mo ago
    Gnome 1 had the best design of all the Gnome versions.
  - 1718627440 8mo ago
    > once you configure it to mimic gnome 2 Why is it better than Gnome 2 then? This is what I prefer (it's called Mate now).
    - EnPissant 8mo ago
      I was a Mate user for ages. It's great. Unfortunately, the lack of development is starting to show. For example, no fractional scaling for 4k monitors. I've configured KDE Plasma to look almost identical to Mate (the defaults are similar to Windows, nice, but I prefer the Mate layout): - top panel / bottom panel - desktop switcher bottom right - task bar on bottom - desktop button bottom left - clock top right - app indicators top right - app icon launchers on top bar - app menu top left It's not just layout, either. Gnome can be configured to do much of this, but it just feels terrible. Task bars can't be dragged to re-order. Desktop switchers just have numbers instead of contents. Animations are slow and annoying. Etc. Etc.
      - 1718627440 8mo ago
        > For example, no fractional scaling for 4k monitors. I don't have a 4K monitor, but what does `xrandr --output HDMI1 --scale 0.8x0.8` do? I have a 1024x768 monitor and do to all the useless whitespace in modern programs, I scale into the opposite direction. But I agree Gnome lost the plot completely, and sadly Gtk too. Which is a pity, because I prefer GTK+ to Qt, but they deprecated so much useful Widgets and the alternative given is 'just don't do that'.
        EnPissant 8mo ago
        You can use xrandr to scale the desktop, but it's not the same thing. You can render at 2x in Mate, and then scale it down slightly (ie 1.25x1.25) with xrandr, but taking a large image and scaling it down using a cubic filter won't look as sharp as real fractional scaling. The command you gave is upscaling, which will be worse than 2x + downscaling. Real fractional scaling scales the sizes of elements before rendering. This results in the sharpest image and there is no resizing/filtering in the loop.
jazzyjackson 8mo ago
I love gnome, at least how it's implemented by recent Fedoras. Whenever I go back to Mac I wonder why spotlight and mission control are two different functions
- jorvi 8mo ago
  Spotlight and Mission Control (and the dock) being separate is good, and them being tied together on Gnome is horrible. I just want to type which app to launch or do some quick math or search for something, I don't need my windows and UI to fly in 14 different directions and then back again every time I need to do those things. Ditto for just want to lazily do something on my dock with the mouse. It's seriously one of the most ill designed off-putting UX things about Gnome.
kiwijamo 8mo ago
Agreed. Even Windows has some nice stuff when it comes to windows management IMHO. Every time I end up on macOS I miss the various Windows/GNOME behaviours e.g. window snapping to the right/left half, pressing the Win key to see all open apps, maximise buttons that doesn't put the whole app into full screen mode, etc.
- argsnd 8mo ago
  macOS gained window snapping last year, and you can bind some keyboard shortcut to the “exposé” view (which is triggered by a trackpad gesture by default) full screen is still its own thing as you mention, though
  - Reason077 8mo ago
    The key binding for Exposé is just F3 on most keyboards!
- terhechte 8mo ago
  I agree that macOS has become worse, however your examples don't really count: Window snapping was implemented some time ago: https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/12/macos-sequoia-window-tiling/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/12/macos-sequoia-window-ti... Instead of win key, you can press F3, or just set a hotkey that works for you in the System Preferences Instead of clicking the red maximize button, you can double-click the window header / title. This will use an algorithm to try to resize the window to the best size for its content.
  - ed_mercer 8mo ago
    You can also hold ALT and press the green button to mazimze.
    - tom_ 8mo ago
      The app still gets to decide though! Most programs do go full size with an alt+green click, but not all. A column-style Finder window, for example, seems to go taller but no wider.
Maken 8mo ago
Gnome has the same issue, it's just less noticeable because the radius of the round corners is smaller. The draggable area of a window is 90% their drop shadow. Except when it's a Qt application, which has no drop shadows because client-side decorations shenanigans.

It's bad when stock Gnome is better. That's where I am now.

by dgxyz 8mo ago

It's bad when stock Gnome is better. That's where I am now.

accrual 8mo ago

Switched to KDE Plasma last month and very pleased I can have square-corner windows again.

dgxyz 8mo ago
Corners are great aren't they! :)
krisknez 8mo ago
I had a hard time with Gnome but now I got used to it and it's amazing for me. I just can't believe they still haven't implemented scrolling speed setting...
- jeroenhd 8mo ago
  Gnome had a scroll speed setting but it broke and disappeared somewhere around the switch to Wayland without getting replaced. Gnome says libinput should deal with scroll speed. Libinput says GTK+ should deal with it. Patches have been lying around for both but neither has gained any traction. I like Gnome's DE in general but this issue showcases the rough edges of open source collaboration the Gnome project is infamous for. Even KWin's (original?) implementation of the feature wasn't great and caused issues with applications, apparently: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/merge_requests/4672#note_2164907 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/merge_requests/4672#not... Broken as though it might be, at least they're trying something, which I appreciate more as an end user than the complete lack of scroll settings.
EnPissant 8mo ago
KDE plasma is the best DE that exists right now (once you configure it to mimic gnome 2).
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- shiroiuma 8mo ago
  Gnome 1 had the best design of all the Gnome versions.
- 1718627440 8mo ago
  > once you configure it to mimic gnome 2 Why is it better than Gnome 2 then? This is what I prefer (it's called Mate now).
  - EnPissant 8mo ago
    I was a Mate user for ages. It's great. Unfortunately, the lack of development is starting to show. For example, no fractional scaling for 4k monitors. I've configured KDE Plasma to look almost identical to Mate (the defaults are similar to Windows, nice, but I prefer the Mate layout): - top panel / bottom panel - desktop switcher bottom right - task bar on bottom - desktop button bottom left - clock top right - app indicators top right - app icon launchers on top bar - app menu top left It's not just layout, either. Gnome can be configured to do much of this, but it just feels terrible. Task bars can't be dragged to re-order. Desktop switchers just have numbers instead of contents. Animations are slow and annoying. Etc. Etc.
    - 1718627440 8mo ago
      > For example, no fractional scaling for 4k monitors. I don't have a 4K monitor, but what does `xrandr --output HDMI1 --scale 0.8x0.8` do? I have a 1024x768 monitor and do to all the useless whitespace in modern programs, I scale into the opposite direction. But I agree Gnome lost the plot completely, and sadly Gtk too. Which is a pity, because I prefer GTK+ to Qt, but they deprecated so much useful Widgets and the alternative given is 'just don't do that'.
      - EnPissant 8mo ago
        You can use xrandr to scale the desktop, but it's not the same thing. You can render at 2x in Mate, and then scale it down slightly (ie 1.25x1.25) with xrandr, but taking a large image and scaling it down using a cubic filter won't look as sharp as real fractional scaling. The command you gave is upscaling, which will be worse than 2x + downscaling. Real fractional scaling scales the sizes of elements before rendering. This results in the sharpest image and there is no resizing/filtering in the loop.

jazzyjackson 8mo ago

I love gnome, at least how it's implemented by recent Fedoras. Whenever I go back to Mac I wonder why spotlight and mission control are two different functions

jorvi 8mo ago
Spotlight and Mission Control (and the dock) being separate is good, and them being tied together on Gnome is horrible. I just want to type which app to launch or do some quick math or search for something, I don't need my windows and UI to fly in 14 different directions and then back again every time I need to do those things. Ditto for just want to lazily do something on my dock with the mouse. It's seriously one of the most ill designed off-putting UX things about Gnome.

kiwijamo 8mo ago

Agreed. Even Windows has some nice stuff when it comes to windows management IMHO. Every time I end up on macOS I miss the various Windows/GNOME behaviours e.g. window snapping to the right/left half, pressing the Win key to see all open apps, maximise buttons that doesn't put the whole app into full screen mode, etc.

argsnd 8mo ago
macOS gained window snapping last year, and you can bind some keyboard shortcut to the “exposé” view (which is triggered by a trackpad gesture by default) full screen is still its own thing as you mention, though
- Reason077 8mo ago
  The key binding for Exposé is just F3 on most keyboards!
terhechte 8mo ago
I agree that macOS has become worse, however your examples don't really count: Window snapping was implemented some time ago: https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/12/macos-sequoia-window-tiling/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/12/macos-sequoia-window-ti... Instead of win key, you can press F3, or just set a hotkey that works for you in the System Preferences Instead of clicking the red maximize button, you can double-click the window header / title. This will use an algorithm to try to resize the window to the best size for its content.
- ed_mercer 8mo ago
  You can also hold ALT and press the green button to mazimze.
  - tom_ 8mo ago
    The app still gets to decide though! Most programs do go full size with an alt+green click, but not all. A column-style Finder window, for example, seems to go taller but no wider.

Maken 8mo ago

Gnome has the same issue, it's just less noticeable because the radius of the round corners is smaller. The draggable area of a window is 90% their drop shadow. Except when it's a Qt application, which has no drop shadows because client-side decorations shenanigans.