3 ms·

I wonder when it will sink in for the average (especially non-white) American citizen that you are one false positive in an algorithm away from being arrested a

I wonder when it will sink in for the average (especially non-white) American citizen that you are one false positive in an algorithm away from being arrested and detained / deported. If you’re lucky there will be a public outcry large enough that you’re released (like 5 year old Liam Ramos). Given expectations built into the constitution, this is should be disturbing. As a white, upper middle class, multigenerational citizen of the US, I find ICE’s actions disturbing at a fundamental level. Probably because I can extrapolate to the logical conclusion of this. Other people are extrapolating as well and it wouldn’t surprise me if continued ICE actions spur a public rebellion against surveillance of all forms, after seeing how it can be combined with a lawless federal government to subvert basic rights. I also think it will result in a backlash against private prisons in general as people then extrapolate from the ICE situation to the daily reality faced by primarily black men when interacting with the police. With a simple head nod, the cops can plant evidence and present a narrative to a judge and jury that puts you away for 20 years over nothing more than a dirty look at a cop. If you think carrying a form of ID or passport will save you from ICE, I just want you to imagine a scenario where you are alone with several federal agents who, when provided with your proof of citizenship, light it on fire with a match and throw you in a van. Papers are just physical objects and unless ICE is wearing 24/7 streaming body cams, the above scenario could happen to literally anyone.

pizzafeelsright 9mo ago
[flagged]
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- mindslight 9mo ago
  No, your favored extremists taking control of the government, attacking American cities, and executing Americans who protest is not "squashing a rebellion". These are straight up violations of individual liberty and rejection of limited government, as laid out by the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. The framing of your injustices is specious - while I'd normally be right with you about the synergy of corporate power forming a de-facto government, that these became mainstream political issues really just demonstrates how far your bubble has been warped by propagandists. Do you know how you can look at the blue tribe media and easily pick out the inflammatory extremist wackos? Your tribe has that also. If you are unable to see it, this means you are saturated in it.
  - pizzafeelsright 9mo ago
    Are you sure you are aware what tribe I belong to, if any? I was speaking from a position of "anyone" with the power of the sword.
    - mindslight 9mo ago
      The tribe currently wielding the sword is the red tribe. Framing their actions as "squashing a rebellion" rather than seditious conspiracy to undermine our Constitutionally-limited government is a form of empathizing with their particular violence. The framing of corporate vaccine mandates is from the same vein - both the implication that it's at the same level of coercion as de jure government action, and also the normalization of what would normally be a fringe viewpoint as a mainstream political rallying cry (a direct result of tribal propaganda). If you want to talk about needless escalation, sane leadership would have unequivocally told everyone they should get vaccinated, and then the number of people defecting would have been small enough to just cope with. Furthermore addressing your original appeal for "open, peaceful, extended discussion", this doesn't particularly work when the red tribe is still fully cheering on their spite-candidate looting and burning our country's institutions to "own the libs". From what I've seen there are many Democrats still asking "how can we compromise" (even if half are tone deaf about the reasons), while the red tribe continues to reject any criticism of what they're told is "winning".
      - pizzafeelsright 9mo ago
        I'm not on either side. I'm certainly not a fan of a company or government, both with the ability to negativity affect my life in considerable ways if I am unwilling to bow to the current whim of leadership. Corporate life under a tyrant who demands prayers or pronouns were unthinkable not long ago. Today if enough leverage is used to press the buttons the demands on us workers may be unpleasant at best or deny us our livelihood.
        btreecat 9mo ago
        >Corporate life under a tyrant who demands prayers or pronouns were unthinkable not long ago. See you give the game away with shallow complaints of forced pronouns. It's a fantasy that allows you to sit fence while only really casting strong blame in one direction, while excusing it when the wind blows a new way.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 9mo ago
  > I think the better path forward is more open, peaceful, extended discussion. There is a good format for two people to have a discussion in good faith: https://yesnodebate.org/ https://yesnodebate.org/ I'll start - Do you think it is good that federal agents are ignoring due process?
  - pizzafeelsright 9mo ago
    No. (for the sake of the game/time) Do I think it is happening? Probably. If so, Punish them? Yes. My turn? A hypothetical group of men with a swords are intent on doing something you disagree with. Would it be wise to attempt to stop them while unarmed and outnumbered?
    - therobots927 9mo ago
      What’s with the sword talk? We don’t live in mediaeval England.
      - pizzafeelsright 9mo ago
        It's a metaphor for the power of death in the hands of others.
        therobots927 9mo ago
        OK Jordan Peterson
    - btreecat 9mo ago
      Depends on the thing they intend to do. Is it chop down a tree that shouldn't be chopped down? I probably would need more people and equipment to effectively stop them because I'm probably not going to convince them with pretty words if they are already doing something that shouldn't be done. Is it try to kill a member of my family? Yeah I'd probably try to intervene sans weapons in order to prevent the loss of life of another family member. Context matters.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 9mo ago
I was told in a Know Your Rights training to carry copies of documents, so they can't steal / burn the originals. Readers, whatever you're doing right now is what you would be doing during the rise of Nazi Germany... Be kind, be a good neighbor, don't talk to cops.
- BobbyTables2 9mo ago
  Photocopies or officially certified copies?
- therobots927 9mo ago
  If things get worse we’ll need to wear body cams live-streaming to the cloud at all times to ensure our rights are upheld. Now that I think about it - not a bad product idea!
  - cdrnsf 9mo ago
    Anecdotally I've seen a significant uptick in folks installing dash cams in their cars. There was a local incident where ICE drove erratically to make it look as though a legal observer initiated a crash. They then called and lied to the local police department. The activist was then released when he provided dash cam footage proving that they lied about the incident. https://lataco.com/oxnard-dash-cam-ice-crash https://lataco.com/oxnard-dash-cam-ice-crash
- scarecrowbob 9mo ago
  "Readers, whatever you're doing right now is what you would be doing during the rise of Nazi Germany..." That is true. If you're in the US and you're not in the signal chats or whatever that would alert you when ICE is working then you're not doing all the things that you could do to prevent this pronounced move towards fascism that will impact you personally and deeply. This is not activism as charity- people need to understand that we are still in a spot where we may be able to push back, and that should be understood as simple self-interest. Even if you're not in a place "under siege" they are working where you are living. Consider that if you're in some rural place or even a place where they feel "at home" your work is going to be more impactful by definition: - find your local immigrant's rights group that is watching out for ICE - get trained by them how to be a "responder" - slot in and help where you can.
Noumenon72 9mo ago
Papers are not just physical objects. The issuing agency records your details and the date of issuance. This is why cops don't boost their citation numbers by shredding your driver's license.
- roughly 9mo ago
  > This is why cops don't boost their citation numbers by shredding your driver's license. The cops are issuing a citation, which you can contest in a court with a reference to that agency record. ICE has a habit of snatching people off the streets and stashing them in not-quite-black sites in Texas or Florida until they can book them on a private airplane to Guatemala.
- scarecrowbob 9mo ago
  I have had a hard time getting copies of my documents when I am -not- incarcerated in a concentration camp... good luck with that.
int_19h 9mo ago
I am a naturalized citizen, and my nightmare scenario is getting arrested and deported to my country of birth, because I'm very likely to end up like Ksenia Karelina in that case.
- therobots927 9mo ago
  Sorry you have to deal with this :(
tracker1 8mo ago
Do you have any actual evidence to support that non-whites are specifically more targeted at any level other than the ratio of illegal entries or over-stays in the US? I've seen plenty of instances of white visa overstays also being deported. Given than upwards of 20 million people walked across the southern border in the last administration that a disproportionate amount of those people are non-white... but that doesn't mean that deportations in and of themselves are driven by race at all. Beyond any of that, you seem to have a level of bias that is well out of touch with reality and your paranoia seems to be highly unfounded by the reality of the levels of deportation of the current administration even compared to the administrations since the turn of the century, especially offset to the number of illegal entries released into the interior of the US over that same time period.
- malshe 8mo ago
  Read this Kavanaugh stop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavanaugh_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavanaugh_stop
- aftbit 8mo ago
  Tangentially related, the Trump admin has decreased the number of refugees that America will legally accept this year from 125k to 7,500. The new quota will prioritize white Afrikaners from South Africa, whom Trump claims face extraordinary discrimination. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/30/us/politics/trump-refugee-admissions-white-south-africans.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/30/us/politics/trump-refugee...

pizzafeelsright 9mo ago

[flagged]

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
mindslight 9mo ago
No, your favored extremists taking control of the government, attacking American cities, and executing Americans who protest is not "squashing a rebellion". These are straight up violations of individual liberty and rejection of limited government, as laid out by the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. The framing of your injustices is specious - while I'd normally be right with you about the synergy of corporate power forming a de-facto government, that these became mainstream political issues really just demonstrates how far your bubble has been warped by propagandists. Do you know how you can look at the blue tribe media and easily pick out the inflammatory extremist wackos? Your tribe has that also. If you are unable to see it, this means you are saturated in it.
- pizzafeelsright 9mo ago
  Are you sure you are aware what tribe I belong to, if any? I was speaking from a position of "anyone" with the power of the sword.
  - mindslight 9mo ago
    The tribe currently wielding the sword is the red tribe. Framing their actions as "squashing a rebellion" rather than seditious conspiracy to undermine our Constitutionally-limited government is a form of empathizing with their particular violence. The framing of corporate vaccine mandates is from the same vein - both the implication that it's at the same level of coercion as de jure government action, and also the normalization of what would normally be a fringe viewpoint as a mainstream political rallying cry (a direct result of tribal propaganda). If you want to talk about needless escalation, sane leadership would have unequivocally told everyone they should get vaccinated, and then the number of people defecting would have been small enough to just cope with. Furthermore addressing your original appeal for "open, peaceful, extended discussion", this doesn't particularly work when the red tribe is still fully cheering on their spite-candidate looting and burning our country's institutions to "own the libs". From what I've seen there are many Democrats still asking "how can we compromise" (even if half are tone deaf about the reasons), while the red tribe continues to reject any criticism of what they're told is "winning".
    - pizzafeelsright 9mo ago
      I'm not on either side. I'm certainly not a fan of a company or government, both with the ability to negativity affect my life in considerable ways if I am unwilling to bow to the current whim of leadership. Corporate life under a tyrant who demands prayers or pronouns were unthinkable not long ago. Today if enough leverage is used to press the buttons the demands on us workers may be unpleasant at best or deny us our livelihood.
      - btreecat 9mo ago
        >Corporate life under a tyrant who demands prayers or pronouns were unthinkable not long ago. See you give the game away with shallow complaints of forced pronouns. It's a fantasy that allows you to sit fence while only really casting strong blame in one direction, while excusing it when the wind blows a new way.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 9mo ago
> I think the better path forward is more open, peaceful, extended discussion. There is a good format for two people to have a discussion in good faith: https://yesnodebate.org/ https://yesnodebate.org/ I'll start - Do you think it is good that federal agents are ignoring due process?
- pizzafeelsright 9mo ago
  No. (for the sake of the game/time) Do I think it is happening? Probably. If so, Punish them? Yes. My turn? A hypothetical group of men with a swords are intent on doing something you disagree with. Would it be wise to attempt to stop them while unarmed and outnumbered?
  - therobots927 9mo ago
    What’s with the sword talk? We don’t live in mediaeval England.
    - pizzafeelsright 9mo ago
      It's a metaphor for the power of death in the hands of others.
      - therobots927 9mo ago
        OK Jordan Peterson
  - btreecat 9mo ago
    Depends on the thing they intend to do. Is it chop down a tree that shouldn't be chopped down? I probably would need more people and equipment to effectively stop them because I'm probably not going to convince them with pretty words if they are already doing something that shouldn't be done. Is it try to kill a member of my family? Yeah I'd probably try to intervene sans weapons in order to prevent the loss of life of another family member. Context matters.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 9mo ago

I was told in a Know Your Rights training to carry copies of documents, so they can't steal / burn the originals. Readers, whatever you're doing right now is what you would be doing during the rise of Nazi Germany... Be kind, be a good neighbor, don't talk to cops.

BobbyTables2 9mo ago
Photocopies or officially certified copies?
therobots927 9mo ago
If things get worse we’ll need to wear body cams live-streaming to the cloud at all times to ensure our rights are upheld. Now that I think about it - not a bad product idea!
- cdrnsf 9mo ago
  Anecdotally I've seen a significant uptick in folks installing dash cams in their cars. There was a local incident where ICE drove erratically to make it look as though a legal observer initiated a crash. They then called and lied to the local police department. The activist was then released when he provided dash cam footage proving that they lied about the incident. https://lataco.com/oxnard-dash-cam-ice-crash https://lataco.com/oxnard-dash-cam-ice-crash
scarecrowbob 9mo ago
"Readers, whatever you're doing right now is what you would be doing during the rise of Nazi Germany..." That is true. If you're in the US and you're not in the signal chats or whatever that would alert you when ICE is working then you're not doing all the things that you could do to prevent this pronounced move towards fascism that will impact you personally and deeply. This is not activism as charity- people need to understand that we are still in a spot where we may be able to push back, and that should be understood as simple self-interest. Even if you're not in a place "under siege" they are working where you are living. Consider that if you're in some rural place or even a place where they feel "at home" your work is going to be more impactful by definition: - find your local immigrant's rights group that is watching out for ICE - get trained by them how to be a "responder" - slot in and help where you can.

Noumenon72 9mo ago

Papers are not just physical objects. The issuing agency records your details and the date of issuance. This is why cops don't boost their citation numbers by shredding your driver's license.

roughly 9mo ago
> This is why cops don't boost their citation numbers by shredding your driver's license. The cops are issuing a citation, which you can contest in a court with a reference to that agency record. ICE has a habit of snatching people off the streets and stashing them in not-quite-black sites in Texas or Florida until they can book them on a private airplane to Guatemala.
scarecrowbob 9mo ago
I have had a hard time getting copies of my documents when I am -not- incarcerated in a concentration camp... good luck with that.

int_19h 9mo ago

I am a naturalized citizen, and my nightmare scenario is getting arrested and deported to my country of birth, because I'm very likely to end up like Ksenia Karelina in that case.

therobots927 9mo ago
Sorry you have to deal with this :(

tracker1 8mo ago

Do you have any actual evidence to support that non-whites are specifically more targeted at any level other than the ratio of illegal entries or over-stays in the US? I've seen plenty of instances of white visa overstays also being deported. Given than upwards of 20 million people walked across the southern border in the last administration that a disproportionate amount of those people are non-white... but that doesn't mean that deportations in and of themselves are driven by race at all. Beyond any of that, you seem to have a level of bias that is well out of touch with reality and your paranoia seems to be highly unfounded by the reality of the levels of deportation of the current administration even compared to the administrations since the turn of the century, especially offset to the number of illegal entries released into the interior of the US over that same time period.

malshe 8mo ago
Read this Kavanaugh stop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavanaugh_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavanaugh_stop
aftbit 8mo ago
Tangentially related, the Trump admin has decreased the number of refugees that America will legally accept this year from 125k to 7,500. The new quota will prioritize white Afrikaners from South Africa, whom Trump claims face extraordinary discrimination. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/30/us/politics/trump-refugee-admissions-white-south-africans.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/30/us/politics/trump-refugee...