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Matrix is a protocol, not a service. It's likely the UK government can enforce laws against content and accounts hosted on the matrix.org servers, but no single

by Zak 8mo ago

Matrix is a protocol, not a service. It's likely the UK government can enforce laws against content and accounts hosted on the matrix.org servers, but no single government has jurisdiction over the entire network.

Bender 8mo ago
Matrix is a protocol, not a service I thought it was both and their hosted service is in the UK. Is it not? I know people can host their own but I have had very little success in getting people to host their own things. Most here at HN will not do anything that requires more than their cell phone. Who knows maybe Discords actions will incentivize more people to self host.
- esseph 8mo ago
  > had very little success in getting people to host their own things. Most here at HN will not do anything that requires more than their cell phone. You're just talking to the wrong ones :-)
  - Bender 8mo ago
    You're just talking to the wrong ones :-) I do hope you are right. Governments have more than enough low hanging fruit to go snatch up and then pat themselves on the back.
- opan 8mo ago
  There's more than just the big flagship server and hosting your own. There are lots of small public servers you can sign up for, similar to email.
toomuchtodo 8mo ago
Like all global finance goes through NYC, they will find a throat to choke if motivated.
- xethos 8mo ago
  That's why the bittorrent protocol is in such dire straights /s Bittorrent actually has fewer real uses than Matrix. The former is useful for Microsoft and others trying to roll out big patches, but the latter is used by NATO, the German Armed Forces, and the French government
  - toomuchtodo 8mo ago
    My understanding is that German users of BitTorrent are pursued and aggressively prosecuted for copyright infringement.
jeroenhd 8mo ago
That sounds more like a recipe for overreach than a method to escape the law, to be honest. Governments don't typically go "aw, shucks, you've caught us on a technicality" without getting the courts involved. Clueless lawmakers will see this app called Element full of kids chatting without restrictions and tell it to add a filter. When the app says "we can't", the government says "sucks to be you, figure it out" and either hands out a fine or blocks the app. There are distinctions between the community vibe Discord is going for (with things like forums and massive chat rooms with thousands of people) and Matrix (which has a few chatrooms but mostly contains small groups of people). No in-app purchases, hype generation, or kyhrt predatory designs, just the bare basics to get a functional chat app (and even less than that if you go for some clients). I'd say being based in the UK will put matrix.org and Element users at risk, but with Matrix development being funded mostly by the people behind matrix.org that implies an impact to the larger decentralized network.
- Zak 8mo ago
  It would take some clever crafting to outlaw Matrix clients without also outlawing web browsers and conventional email clients. Let's assume they did though. The best they can do is block it from app stores, which won't stop anyone but iOS users. More likely, it just won't become popular enough for lawmakers to notice because the UX is a little rough, and people have very little patience for such things anymore.
  - lyu07282 8mo ago
    > The best they can do is block it from app stores, which won't stop anyone but iOS users. https://gagadget.com/en/671314-no-more-apk-google-will-block-the-installation-of-unknown-apps-at-the-system-level-from-2027/ https://gagadget.com/en/671314-no-more-apk-google-will-block... The walls are closing in on us all
    - fsflover 8mo ago
      Except those using GNU/Linux phones.

by Zak 8mo ago

Bender 8mo ago

Matrix is a protocol, not a service I thought it was both and their hosted service is in the UK. Is it not? I know people can host their own but I have had very little success in getting people to host their own things. Most here at HN will not do anything that requires more than their cell phone. Who knows maybe Discords actions will incentivize more people to self host.

esseph 8mo ago
> had very little success in getting people to host their own things. Most here at HN will not do anything that requires more than their cell phone. You're just talking to the wrong ones :-)
- Bender 8mo ago
  You're just talking to the wrong ones :-) I do hope you are right. Governments have more than enough low hanging fruit to go snatch up and then pat themselves on the back.
opan 8mo ago
There's more than just the big flagship server and hosting your own. There are lots of small public servers you can sign up for, similar to email.

toomuchtodo 8mo ago

Like all global finance goes through NYC, they will find a throat to choke if motivated.

xethos 8mo ago
That's why the bittorrent protocol is in such dire straights /s Bittorrent actually has fewer real uses than Matrix. The former is useful for Microsoft and others trying to roll out big patches, but the latter is used by NATO, the German Armed Forces, and the French government
- toomuchtodo 8mo ago
  My understanding is that German users of BitTorrent are pursued and aggressively prosecuted for copyright infringement.

jeroenhd 8mo ago

That sounds more like a recipe for overreach than a method to escape the law, to be honest. Governments don't typically go "aw, shucks, you've caught us on a technicality" without getting the courts involved. Clueless lawmakers will see this app called Element full of kids chatting without restrictions and tell it to add a filter. When the app says "we can't", the government says "sucks to be you, figure it out" and either hands out a fine or blocks the app. There are distinctions between the community vibe Discord is going for (with things like forums and massive chat rooms with thousands of people) and Matrix (which has a few chatrooms but mostly contains small groups of people). No in-app purchases, hype generation, or kyhrt predatory designs, just the bare basics to get a functional chat app (and even less than that if you go for some clients). I'd say being based in the UK will put matrix.org and Element users at risk, but with Matrix development being funded mostly by the people behind matrix.org that implies an impact to the larger decentralized network.

Zak 8mo ago
It would take some clever crafting to outlaw Matrix clients without also outlawing web browsers and conventional email clients. Let's assume they did though. The best they can do is block it from app stores, which won't stop anyone but iOS users. More likely, it just won't become popular enough for lawmakers to notice because the UX is a little rough, and people have very little patience for such things anymore.
- lyu07282 8mo ago
  > The best they can do is block it from app stores, which won't stop anyone but iOS users. https://gagadget.com/en/671314-no-more-apk-google-will-block-the-installation-of-unknown-apps-at-the-system-level-from-2027/ https://gagadget.com/en/671314-no-more-apk-google-will-block... The walls are closing in on us all
  - fsflover 8mo ago
    Except those using GNU/Linux phones.