5 ms·

I am left wondering why China is making all of these "green" changes; more renewables, planting trees at the edges of deserts, etc. I mean, I guess it could be

by NoSalt 8mo ago

I am left wondering why China is making all of these "green" changes; more renewables, planting trees at the edges of deserts, etc. I mean, I guess it could be altruistic, to help the Earth and it's people. However, I just don't see that kind of attitude coming out of China. So, again, I am left wondering what their angle is. Is it simply to "stick it" to the United States? What is everybody's opinion on this?

ceejayoz 8mo ago
I think the real question is the other way around; why isn't the US the world leader in this? China's answer is fairly straightforward - jobs, exports, energy independence, wind/solar is cheaper, and they have 1.3B people who don't want to live in a big polluted desert.
- dnautics 8mo ago
  it kinda is? the us and Europe both have had year-on-year raw and trade-corrected negative ghg production, the us has since the obama administration, inclusive of trump I. there are a lot of surprises, for example texas being the #1 state for renewable energy production
  - 3E8Jn5VjR 8mo ago
    Is the year-on-year statement true? The EU’s data seems to show a slight increase in emissions for the US from 2023 to 2024. https://edgar.jrc.ec.europa.eu/report_2025 https://edgar.jrc.ec.europa.eu/report_2025
mrguyorama 8mo ago
Because China wants to rule the world. That includes roughly being seen as a great bastion of awesomeness. The huge solar rollout is very much because China thinks it might end up in a war, and they are currently very vulnerable to a blockade for energy resources, and grid scale solar is unblockadable for like 20 years. You can bomb it, but that's a hard mission. If what I believe is correct, there would also be evidence of China creating unblockadable food transport lines and relationships. Global Warming is well understood all over the world. China doesn't want the world to suck right before they finally undo their Century of Humiliation and retake their "rightful" place as mega empire that exports culture and tech and power. They want to be the super power ruling over an awesome world, not ruling over ashes. I've heard arguments that China has fairly limited "Soft power", and they really want to fix that, which takes actions that at least look altruistic and win-win. With the US self-defeating, China is in a great place to be the leader of a stable world, and even be a counterweight to an abusive USA.
ebbi 8mo ago
Why don't you see that attitude coming out of China?
triceratops 8mo ago
Because it's good for China to have less desert and more forest. It isn't a very complicated question to answer.
ramblenode 8mo ago
Most of China's large projects are actually some type of competition with the US. The Tianjin Grand Bridge was basically built to eclipse the Causeway and showcase China's engineering prowess. The massive Shanghai subway buildout was a direct challenge to New York City's subway hegemony. Those 20+ story pig towers? Totally unnecessary way to do farming, but a source of national pride when compared to the already impressive scale of US factory farming. China is building record numbers of both solar and coal plants, which seem to be at environmental cross-purposes, but it makes sense when you consider they are trying to beat the US at both clean AND dirty energy. It's in the five-year plan.
- raven12345 8mo ago
  Unlike the Soviet Union, China did not have much of a competitive mentality towards the United States, because for most of the time China lagged far behind the United States.
  - 3371 8mo ago
    What? 超英趕美 has been a thing since 1958.
    - raven12345 8mo ago
      Did I say there was absolutely none? And this slogan is only for steel production. Is there anything else?
netsharc 8mo ago
> However, I just don't see that kind of attitude coming out of China. And if it was the US? Well I don't see that attitude from the US of 2025-present, or 2017-2021. And what about the Europeans? https://geopolitique.eu/en/2026/02/12/the-unravelling-of-the-european-green-deal-and-the-birth-of-a-new-european-climate-policy/ https://geopolitique.eu/en/2026/02/12/the-unravelling-of-the... At least the Chinese rulers saw how smog was choking Beijing, and maybe they decided to try to technology their way into breathable air, compared to the US ruling class, who'd rather take oil/coal lobbyist money. Or EU ruling class, who liked BMW, VW and Mercedes-lobbyist money... As a nice side effect, the Chinese tech will be needed all over the world. If you can't rule the world by controlling the oil (by bombs or being friends with Saudis), why not look at the next tech and try to rule that.. Paul Krugman was writing during Dubya's dumb regime how the US was surrendering the lead on climate technology to China...
raven12345 8mo ago
Because renewable energy can ensure energy security, and afforestation to control desertification can guarantee the amount of arable land, unlike the US, China lacks sufficient agricultural land.
aa-jv 8mo ago
China wants to help the world. They have decided to build their empire not with bombs and sanctions but with roads and projects which help the local community. You might want to check your own attitude about China.

by NoSalt 8mo ago

ceejayoz 8mo ago

I think the real question is the other way around; why isn't the US the world leader in this? China's answer is fairly straightforward - jobs, exports, energy independence, wind/solar is cheaper, and they have 1.3B people who don't want to live in a big polluted desert.

dnautics 8mo ago
it kinda is? the us and Europe both have had year-on-year raw and trade-corrected negative ghg production, the us has since the obama administration, inclusive of trump I. there are a lot of surprises, for example texas being the #1 state for renewable energy production
- 3E8Jn5VjR 8mo ago
  Is the year-on-year statement true? The EU’s data seems to show a slight increase in emissions for the US from 2023 to 2024. https://edgar.jrc.ec.europa.eu/report_2025 https://edgar.jrc.ec.europa.eu/report_2025

mrguyorama 8mo ago

Because China wants to rule the world. That includes roughly being seen as a great bastion of awesomeness. The huge solar rollout is very much because China thinks it might end up in a war, and they are currently very vulnerable to a blockade for energy resources, and grid scale solar is unblockadable for like 20 years. You can bomb it, but that's a hard mission. If what I believe is correct, there would also be evidence of China creating unblockadable food transport lines and relationships. Global Warming is well understood all over the world. China doesn't want the world to suck right before they finally undo their Century of Humiliation and retake their "rightful" place as mega empire that exports culture and tech and power. They want to be the super power ruling over an awesome world, not ruling over ashes. I've heard arguments that China has fairly limited "Soft power", and they really want to fix that, which takes actions that at least look altruistic and win-win. With the US self-defeating, China is in a great place to be the leader of a stable world, and even be a counterweight to an abusive USA.

ebbi 8mo ago

Why don't you see that attitude coming out of China?

triceratops 8mo ago

Because it's good for China to have less desert and more forest. It isn't a very complicated question to answer.

ramblenode 8mo ago

Most of China's large projects are actually some type of competition with the US. The Tianjin Grand Bridge was basically built to eclipse the Causeway and showcase China's engineering prowess. The massive Shanghai subway buildout was a direct challenge to New York City's subway hegemony. Those 20+ story pig towers? Totally unnecessary way to do farming, but a source of national pride when compared to the already impressive scale of US factory farming. China is building record numbers of both solar and coal plants, which seem to be at environmental cross-purposes, but it makes sense when you consider they are trying to beat the US at both clean AND dirty energy. It's in the five-year plan.

raven12345 8mo ago
Unlike the Soviet Union, China did not have much of a competitive mentality towards the United States, because for most of the time China lagged far behind the United States.
- 3371 8mo ago
  What? 超英趕美 has been a thing since 1958.
  - raven12345 8mo ago
    Did I say there was absolutely none? And this slogan is only for steel production. Is there anything else?

netsharc 8mo ago

> However, I just don't see that kind of attitude coming out of China. And if it was the US? Well I don't see that attitude from the US of 2025-present, or 2017-2021. And what about the Europeans? https://geopolitique.eu/en/2026/02/12/the-unravelling-of-the-european-green-deal-and-the-birth-of-a-new-european-climate-policy/ https://geopolitique.eu/en/2026/02/12/the-unravelling-of-the... At least the Chinese rulers saw how smog was choking Beijing, and maybe they decided to try to technology their way into breathable air, compared to the US ruling class, who'd rather take oil/coal lobbyist money. Or EU ruling class, who liked BMW, VW and Mercedes-lobbyist money... As a nice side effect, the Chinese tech will be needed all over the world. If you can't rule the world by controlling the oil (by bombs or being friends with Saudis), why not look at the next tech and try to rule that.. Paul Krugman was writing during Dubya's dumb regime how the US was surrendering the lead on climate technology to China...

raven12345 8mo ago

Because renewable energy can ensure energy security, and afforestation to control desertification can guarantee the amount of arable land, unlike the US, China lacks sufficient agricultural land.

aa-jv 8mo ago

China wants to help the world. They have decided to build their empire not with bombs and sanctions but with roads and projects which help the local community. You might want to check your own attitude about China.