4 ms·

I know of cities where real estate development is rampant, sometimes to the detriment of quality, and yet apartment prices are soaring.

parineum 8mo ago
That's because, in the places where housing is expensive, it's expensive because a _LOT_ of people want to live there. It's a pipe dream that you can out build demand in these places. Reducing prices of housing in nice places to live (by any means, including building) will only result in more demand up until that insatiable demand is satisfied. Nice places to live can't support all the people that want to live there. Because demand is, for all intents and purposes, insatiable, the dollar value of housing/property isn't based on supply and demand because supply can't practically be increased to affect demand. Instead, the price is related to what a prospective buyer can afford to pay _every month_ and, thus, is related to interest rates. Interest rates go down, prices go up to the point where a prospective buyer's mortgage payment would be the same. People who bring up the (un)affordability of housing are never talking about Oklahoma, they're talking about the Bay Area, Southern California, New York City, Seattle, Portland, etc. All places that are so desirable, they can't practically support everyone that wants to live there.
- 9rx 8mo ago
  > it's expensive because a _LOT_ of people want to live there. I can't figure out how to make the math make sense even if I were to build a house in the middle of nowhere. Time and materials is the real killer. Some day, when AI eliminates software development as a career, maybe you will be able to hire those people to build you houses for next to nothing, but right now I don't think it matters where or how many you build. The only way the average Joe is going to be able to afford one — at least until population decline fixes the problem naturally — is for someone else to take a huge loss on construction. And, well, who is going to line up to do that?
  - parineum 8mo ago
    You can't afford a 175k house on a software engineer salary? https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3024-N-Vermont-Ave-Oklahoma-City-OK-73107/21909221_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3024-N-Vermont-Ave-Oklaho...
    - 9rx 8mo ago
      "Built in 1954" doesn't sound like new construction. Of course you can buy used houses at a fraction of the cost. That's nothing new. Maybe you missed it, but the discussion here about building new to make homes more affordable.
      - parineum 8mo ago
        > building new to make homes more affordable No need to build new, a plethora of affordable homes are available.
        9rx 8mo ago
        If one was freely able to move about the entire world you may have a point. Especially given current events, I am not sure the country in which that house is located would take kindly to many of us moving there. In a more practical reality you're not going to find anything for anywhere close to that price even in the middle of nowhere, never mind somewhere where everyone wants to live. That is where earlier comments suggest building more housing would help. Except it is not clear who can afford new construction either. It is even more expensive.
        parineum 8mo ago
        > That is where earlier comments suggest building more housing would help. I explained earlier why I don't think it would. The places with a housing "shortages" are the places where everyone wants to live. Those places would have to build an impossible number of houses to affect demand. You have people saying they can't afford housing and then, when you show them they can, they say, "not there..."

parineum 8mo ago

That's because, in the places where housing is expensive, it's expensive because a _LOT_ of people want to live there. It's a pipe dream that you can out build demand in these places. Reducing prices of housing in nice places to live (by any means, including building) will only result in more demand up until that insatiable demand is satisfied. Nice places to live can't support all the people that want to live there. Because demand is, for all intents and purposes, insatiable, the dollar value of housing/property isn't based on supply and demand because supply can't practically be increased to affect demand. Instead, the price is related to what a prospective buyer can afford to pay _every month_ and, thus, is related to interest rates. Interest rates go down, prices go up to the point where a prospective buyer's mortgage payment would be the same. People who bring up the (un)affordability of housing are never talking about Oklahoma, they're talking about the Bay Area, Southern California, New York City, Seattle, Portland, etc. All places that are so desirable, they can't practically support everyone that wants to live there.

9rx 8mo ago
> it's expensive because a _LOT_ of people want to live there. I can't figure out how to make the math make sense even if I were to build a house in the middle of nowhere. Time and materials is the real killer. Some day, when AI eliminates software development as a career, maybe you will be able to hire those people to build you houses for next to nothing, but right now I don't think it matters where or how many you build. The only way the average Joe is going to be able to afford one — at least until population decline fixes the problem naturally — is for someone else to take a huge loss on construction. And, well, who is going to line up to do that?
- parineum 8mo ago
  You can't afford a 175k house on a software engineer salary? https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3024-N-Vermont-Ave-Oklahoma-City-OK-73107/21909221_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3024-N-Vermont-Ave-Oklaho...
  - 9rx 8mo ago
    "Built in 1954" doesn't sound like new construction. Of course you can buy used houses at a fraction of the cost. That's nothing new. Maybe you missed it, but the discussion here about building new to make homes more affordable.
    - parineum 8mo ago
      > building new to make homes more affordable No need to build new, a plethora of affordable homes are available.
      - 9rx 8mo ago
        If one was freely able to move about the entire world you may have a point. Especially given current events, I am not sure the country in which that house is located would take kindly to many of us moving there. In a more practical reality you're not going to find anything for anywhere close to that price even in the middle of nowhere, never mind somewhere where everyone wants to live. That is where earlier comments suggest building more housing would help. Except it is not clear who can afford new construction either. It is even more expensive.
        parineum 8mo ago
        > That is where earlier comments suggest building more housing would help. I explained earlier why I don't think it would. The places with a housing "shortages" are the places where everyone wants to live. Those places would have to build an impossible number of houses to affect demand. You have people saying they can't afford housing and then, when you show them they can, they say, "not there..."