4 ms·

Ever feel like these things are being burned down not just on purpose, but for the gains of someone else?

consumer451 8mo ago
Well, yes, but that someone else doesn’t need to be a foreign adversary. There is a certain type of mentality that just doesn’t believe that government should do anything, and that private enterprise will always have the solution. Those people appear to be in control of all levers of power in the United States.
- pavlov 8mo ago
  But they seem to also believe in heavy-handed government intervention to prop up failing businesses. For example Trump's recent announcement that he'll require the military to buy coal power on long-term contracts: https://arstechnica.com/science/2026/02/trumps-latest-plan-to-revive-coal-power-make-the-military-buy-it/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2026/02/trumps-latest-plan-t... So on the one hand they're saying government shouldn't do anything, but on the other hand they love having the government put its finger on the scales of the market.
  - coldpie 8mo ago
    The common thread that resolves this apparent conflict is, of course, billionaires. 100% of Republicans and ~60% of Democrats are in office primarily to serve at the whims of billionaires. They will pursue whatever policies will give more power to billionaires, consistency and hypocrisy are irrelevant.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - deaux 8mo ago
      > ~60% of Democrats I think you can make that ~80%, but maybe you've done the calculations more diligently than I have.
    - felineflock 8mo ago
      No, it is more like Reps 75% and Dems 90%, ±5%.
      - nullocator 8mo ago
        How could you possibly come to this conclusion? Which party literally just voted for tax breaks on the wealthy and corporations, twice in one decade?! In before "No clearly the party that helps the billionaires the most and is mostly comprised of billionaires and is backed by all the tech billionaires are the good guys, they are the true party of the people"
        felineflock 8mo ago
        So you think only one party did that??? Only one party protects billionaires??? Wow that's funny!
  - sheikhnbake 8mo ago
    "So on the one hand they're saying government shouldn't do anything, but on the other hand they love having the government put its finger on the scales of the market." Rather: They don't want the government to impede capitalist interests (greed), so they're using the government to further their corruption and greed
- relaxing 8mo ago
  You think they truly believe private enterprise is going to defend the country from cyberattacks?
  - consumer451 8mo ago
    I personally find the mentality truly not sane. So, why not? Absolutists appear to not think through a lot of things. On top of that, there is the whole accelerationist ideology factor, which is also deeply insane to me.
    - relaxing 8mo ago
      Sure, but under that assumption there’s no reason to rule out any of the other theories, either.
      - consumer451 8mo ago
        Agreed. I guess my point in OP was about my own realization that crazy stuff need not be at the behest of a foreign adversary.
- jmull 8mo ago
  It's simpler than ideology about government vs. private enterprise. These are purely transactional people, looking out for what can benefit themselves. It's just about grabbing things for personal gain.
- IG_Semmelweiss 8mo ago
  Real world evidence doesn't seem to validate this position. For example - The ratio of government employees (including contractors) to US population is at an all time high[1], and the ratio of GDP to government expense is at an all time high[2]. It should be obvious if you have a profilgate printer priting dollars left and right, and the printer's controllers livelyhood depends on the printer working, workers will eventually lease printing to anyone willing to pay the controllers. Thus, doesn't seem like a problem of wealthy people to me. You are always going to have wealthy people in any society. But it seems the fault is at having a printer, and letting people who aren't your neighbor, to control it. I'm open minded in this being a "Chicken or egg" Problem. But I'd need to hear a compelling argument for it. [1] https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-true-size-of-government-is-nearing-a-record-high/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-true-size-of-governme... [2] https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA
  - miltonlost 8mo ago
    ze/l,dcg;klsd;fmg'sex WHATD. you need to learn how monetary policy works. there's nothing in your response worth correcting it's so wrong. And completely ignores who is President and his explicit words.
    - AnthonyMouse 8mo ago
      The current President is a big fat liar and everybody knows it. But where's your counter for the argument? Government spending is now at a higher percentage of GDP than it was during the height of WWII, which had been the all-time high for 200+ years. That is inherently inconsistent with the incumbent "just doesn’t believe that government should do anything" -- the current government is doing a lot of something.
      - nullocator 8mo ago
        Why would you write it like it's a mystery. Government spending is for the most part public. Most of it going to two massive buckets military and social support programs (medicare, snap, et al). Now you can argue about how much we should be spending on each, but don't act like it's a big secret where the money is going. The elected representatives (all parties) of this country have voted to increase military spending year over year and most of the population is fine with this. Separately but equally damaging in terms of spending is one party is consistently doing everything in their power to fuck over the most vulnerable, provide tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy, and generally make life miserable for anyone who isn't a wealthy (soon white) dude. This means the other party being the only sane choice for people with morals, but also being subject to various types of capture corporate or otherwise, gets to spend their time in power bumbling around trying to undo the damage and make sure the wheels don't completely fall off, so the "welfare" state expands by necessity since the only thing the two parties can agree on at this point is that all problems should be solved by throwing absurd amount of money at them and nothing else.
- _DeadFred_ 8mo ago
  That is basically the Republicans' entire existence at this point. They would rather blow it up/make it disfunction/burn in down than have a working government. They have proven so with actions/policy like their willingness to pile destructive levels of debt onto the nation in order leverage the damage to their political goal of destroying government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
- donkeybeer 8mo ago
  No these aren't no government types otherwise they'd be jan 6'ing every capitol when tariffs were imposed. These people are just trumpbots, there is no philosophy or consistency you will be able to find. They are not smart enough leastways to even in theory hold any philosophical position.
pjc50 8mo ago
It's amazing what people will ignore to suit their prejudices. The Presidential cryptocurrency should have been the clearest signal that this was going to be all-grift, all of the time. I don't think any previous President would have been allowed to destroy half of the White House, either. The exact sort of thing that, if an "enemy" had did it, they would be demanding a war over.
idiotsecant 8mo ago
Yes, a thousand little petty warlords in waiting.
unbalancedevh 8mo ago
Each new fire is a distraction from the chaos created by the previous one.
- curt15 8mo ago
  It's a distraction only if people let themselves be distracted.
jfalcon 8mo ago
You did get the memo from POTUS that loyalty is more important than intelligence, right? Un-bias intelligence in this operation is not welcomed. One is told what is "factual truth" (not facts themselves) by those who operate out of Pennsylvania Avenue in DC. If you're not blindly loyal and in line with the administration, then you'll be at risk of losing whatever role you have unless your loyalty is proven then you may receive some of that back based on how much you have demonstrated. -- The problem in infosec in this world is not competence, it is cult of personality. This is why black t-shirt dislike black polo shirts not so secretly.
notanastronaut 8mo ago
We're in an era of Disaster Capitalism. Some of the richest people have realized they've nearly extracted all the money they can gain on the current trajectory of nations and came to the conclusion they can make even more money if they destroy everything and then are the ones to rebuild society, their way. Fallout's storyline from the live-action series, where Vault-Tec dropped the first nuke and started the apocalypse simply so they could wipe out the competition and rebuild later, is a little too on-the-nose.
- nullocator 8mo ago
  Ya historically this doesn't traditionally work out for the rich instigators/accelerationist. idk maybe their bunkers are immune from having dirt shoved in the air intakes, either way it's not clear to me that they understand that the people they are trying to fuck over the hardest are the ones who know how to work all the industrial equipment and built the bunkers.

Well, yes, but that someone else doesn’t need to be a foreign adversary. There is a certain type of mentality that just doesn’t believe that government should do anything, and that private enterprise will always have the solution. Those people appear to be in control of all levers of power in the United States.

pavlov 8mo ago
But they seem to also believe in heavy-handed government intervention to prop up failing businesses. For example Trump's recent announcement that he'll require the military to buy coal power on long-term contracts: https://arstechnica.com/science/2026/02/trumps-latest-plan-to-revive-coal-power-make-the-military-buy-it/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2026/02/trumps-latest-plan-t... So on the one hand they're saying government shouldn't do anything, but on the other hand they love having the government put its finger on the scales of the market.
- coldpie 8mo ago
  The common thread that resolves this apparent conflict is, of course, billionaires. 100% of Republicans and ~60% of Democrats are in office primarily to serve at the whims of billionaires. They will pursue whatever policies will give more power to billionaires, consistency and hypocrisy are irrelevant.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
  - deaux 8mo ago
    > ~60% of Democrats I think you can make that ~80%, but maybe you've done the calculations more diligently than I have.
  - felineflock 8mo ago
    No, it is more like Reps 75% and Dems 90%, ±5%.
    - nullocator 8mo ago
      How could you possibly come to this conclusion? Which party literally just voted for tax breaks on the wealthy and corporations, twice in one decade?! In before "No clearly the party that helps the billionaires the most and is mostly comprised of billionaires and is backed by all the tech billionaires are the good guys, they are the true party of the people"
      - felineflock 8mo ago
        So you think only one party did that??? Only one party protects billionaires??? Wow that's funny!
- sheikhnbake 8mo ago
  "So on the one hand they're saying government shouldn't do anything, but on the other hand they love having the government put its finger on the scales of the market." Rather: They don't want the government to impede capitalist interests (greed), so they're using the government to further their corruption and greed
relaxing 8mo ago
You think they truly believe private enterprise is going to defend the country from cyberattacks?
- consumer451 8mo ago
  I personally find the mentality truly not sane. So, why not? Absolutists appear to not think through a lot of things. On top of that, there is the whole accelerationist ideology factor, which is also deeply insane to me.
  - relaxing 8mo ago
    Sure, but under that assumption there’s no reason to rule out any of the other theories, either.
    - consumer451 8mo ago
      Agreed. I guess my point in OP was about my own realization that crazy stuff need not be at the behest of a foreign adversary.
jmull 8mo ago
It's simpler than ideology about government vs. private enterprise. These are purely transactional people, looking out for what can benefit themselves. It's just about grabbing things for personal gain.
IG_Semmelweiss 8mo ago
Real world evidence doesn't seem to validate this position. For example - The ratio of government employees (including contractors) to US population is at an all time high[1], and the ratio of GDP to government expense is at an all time high[2]. It should be obvious if you have a profilgate printer priting dollars left and right, and the printer's controllers livelyhood depends on the printer working, workers will eventually lease printing to anyone willing to pay the controllers. Thus, doesn't seem like a problem of wealthy people to me. You are always going to have wealthy people in any society. But it seems the fault is at having a printer, and letting people who aren't your neighbor, to control it. I'm open minded in this being a "Chicken or egg" Problem. But I'd need to hear a compelling argument for it. [1] https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-true-size-of-government-is-nearing-a-record-high/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-true-size-of-governme... [2] https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA
- miltonlost 8mo ago
  ze/l,dcg;klsd;fmg'sex WHATD. you need to learn how monetary policy works. there's nothing in your response worth correcting it's so wrong. And completely ignores who is President and his explicit words.
  - AnthonyMouse 8mo ago
    The current President is a big fat liar and everybody knows it. But where's your counter for the argument? Government spending is now at a higher percentage of GDP than it was during the height of WWII, which had been the all-time high for 200+ years. That is inherently inconsistent with the incumbent "just doesn’t believe that government should do anything" -- the current government is doing a lot of something.
    - nullocator 8mo ago
      Why would you write it like it's a mystery. Government spending is for the most part public. Most of it going to two massive buckets military and social support programs (medicare, snap, et al). Now you can argue about how much we should be spending on each, but don't act like it's a big secret where the money is going. The elected representatives (all parties) of this country have voted to increase military spending year over year and most of the population is fine with this. Separately but equally damaging in terms of spending is one party is consistently doing everything in their power to fuck over the most vulnerable, provide tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy, and generally make life miserable for anyone who isn't a wealthy (soon white) dude. This means the other party being the only sane choice for people with morals, but also being subject to various types of capture corporate or otherwise, gets to spend their time in power bumbling around trying to undo the damage and make sure the wheels don't completely fall off, so the "welfare" state expands by necessity since the only thing the two parties can agree on at this point is that all problems should be solved by throwing absurd amount of money at them and nothing else.
_DeadFred_ 8mo ago
That is basically the Republicans' entire existence at this point. They would rather blow it up/make it disfunction/burn in down than have a working government. They have proven so with actions/policy like their willingness to pile destructive levels of debt onto the nation in order leverage the damage to their political goal of destroying government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
donkeybeer 8mo ago
No these aren't no government types otherwise they'd be jan 6'ing every capitol when tariffs were imposed. These people are just trumpbots, there is no philosophy or consistency you will be able to find. They are not smart enough leastways to even in theory hold any philosophical position.

pjc50 8mo ago

It's amazing what people will ignore to suit their prejudices. The Presidential cryptocurrency should have been the clearest signal that this was going to be all-grift, all of the time. I don't think any previous President would have been allowed to destroy half of the White House, either. The exact sort of thing that, if an "enemy" had did it, they would be demanding a war over.

idiotsecant 8mo ago

Yes, a thousand little petty warlords in waiting.

unbalancedevh 8mo ago

Each new fire is a distraction from the chaos created by the previous one.

curt15 8mo ago
It's a distraction only if people let themselves be distracted.

jfalcon 8mo ago

You did get the memo from POTUS that loyalty is more important than intelligence, right? Un-bias intelligence in this operation is not welcomed. One is told what is "factual truth" (not facts themselves) by those who operate out of Pennsylvania Avenue in DC. If you're not blindly loyal and in line with the administration, then you'll be at risk of losing whatever role you have unless your loyalty is proven then you may receive some of that back based on how much you have demonstrated. -- The problem in infosec in this world is not competence, it is cult of personality. This is why black t-shirt dislike black polo shirts not so secretly.

notanastronaut 8mo ago

We're in an era of Disaster Capitalism. Some of the richest people have realized they've nearly extracted all the money they can gain on the current trajectory of nations and came to the conclusion they can make even more money if they destroy everything and then are the ones to rebuild society, their way. Fallout's storyline from the live-action series, where Vault-Tec dropped the first nuke and started the apocalypse simply so they could wipe out the competition and rebuild later, is a little too on-the-nose.

nullocator 8mo ago
Ya historically this doesn't traditionally work out for the rich instigators/accelerationist. idk maybe their bunkers are immune from having dirt shoved in the air intakes, either way it's not clear to me that they understand that the people they are trying to fuck over the hardest are the ones who know how to work all the industrial equipment and built the bunkers.