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> everyone would be better served by open platforms Oh cool, which ones?! …aaaand there's the problem.

by jen729w 8mo ago

unethical_ban 8mo ago
This suggests that the immediate availability of a drop-in replacement today means there is no utility in encouraging that growth. There are multiple open-source tools that do everything Discord does. There are few-to-none that offer everything Discord does, and certainly none that are centralized, network-effect-capture-ready. Short term: * Small group chats with known friends: Signal, whatsapp, IRC, Matrix * Community chat: Zulip, Rocket.chat * Community voice: Mumble, Teamspeak * Video / screen sharing and voice chat: Zoom, BigBlueButton, Jitsi I've heard about Stoat but haven't read up on it.
- Valodim 8mo ago
  None of those play in the same league as discord for hosting a community, and none of them look in a position to be there in the foreseeable future. It sucks but that's how it is.
  - einr 8mo ago
    This is how it always is, until suddenly one day it isn't. Linux didn't play in the same league as serious and commercial UNIX systems until one fateful day it killed them all dead forever.
    - jen729w 8mo ago
      > until suddenly one day it isn't Thread OP here. This is exactly my point: today isn't that day. I need it to be. Some future server that I can migrate my community to isn't useful.
  - Cthulhu_ 8mo ago
    That was true for the Twitter alternatives too, and look how fast they grew.
- jabroni_salad 8mo ago
  If you want to host your own stoat server, you will also need to recompile the apps to use your URL and distribute them to your friends, and they will not be compatible for any other server.
  - unethical_ban 8mo ago
    Yes, I learned in the Zulip promo discussion earlier this week that self-hosted push notification servers have to have certs compiled directly into the app. I can't tell if it's malice, indifference or incompetence to have that design; any answer is completely believable. Is there an architectural opportunity to build a "Self-hosted push notification" app and business, where the push broker builds an app to deploy to play, then the self-hosted apps build trust with the broker. The broker app sends push notifications to the user device, which can inform them of the message sent and open arbitrary app windows?
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - jabroni_salad 8mo ago
      This topic comes up with firebase avoidance on degoogled phones. Have a look at unifiedpush.org and ntfy.sh There's an implementation sample here: https://fluffy.chat/en/faq/#push_without_google_services https://fluffy.chat/en/faq/#push_without_google_services

> everyone would be better served by open platforms Oh cool, which ones?! …aaaand there's the problem.

by jen729w 8mo ago

> everyone would be better served by open platforms Oh cool, which ones?! …aaaand there's the problem.

This suggests that the immediate availability of a drop-in replacement today means there is no utility in encouraging that growth. There are multiple open-source tools that do everything Discord does. There are few-to-none that offer everything Discord does, and certainly none that are centralized, network-effect-capture-ready. Short term: * Small group chats with known friends: Signal, whatsapp, IRC, Matrix * Community chat: Zulip, Rocket.chat * Community voice: Mumble, Teamspeak * Video / screen sharing and voice chat: Zoom, BigBlueButton, Jitsi I've heard about Stoat but haven't read up on it.

Valodim 8mo ago
None of those play in the same league as discord for hosting a community, and none of them look in a position to be there in the foreseeable future. It sucks but that's how it is.
- einr 8mo ago
  This is how it always is, until suddenly one day it isn't. Linux didn't play in the same league as serious and commercial UNIX systems until one fateful day it killed them all dead forever.
  - jen729w 8mo ago
    > until suddenly one day it isn't Thread OP here. This is exactly my point: today isn't that day. I need it to be. Some future server that I can migrate my community to isn't useful.
- Cthulhu_ 8mo ago
  That was true for the Twitter alternatives too, and look how fast they grew.
jabroni_salad 8mo ago
If you want to host your own stoat server, you will also need to recompile the apps to use your URL and distribute them to your friends, and they will not be compatible for any other server.
- unethical_ban 8mo ago
  Yes, I learned in the Zulip promo discussion earlier this week that self-hosted push notification servers have to have certs compiled directly into the app. I can't tell if it's malice, indifference or incompetence to have that design; any answer is completely believable. Is there an architectural opportunity to build a "Self-hosted push notification" app and business, where the push broker builds an app to deploy to play, then the self-hosted apps build trust with the broker. The broker app sends push notifications to the user device, which can inform them of the message sent and open arbitrary app windows?
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
  - jabroni_salad 8mo ago
    This topic comes up with firebase avoidance on degoogled phones. Have a look at unifiedpush.org and ntfy.sh There's an implementation sample here: https://fluffy.chat/en/faq/#push_without_google_services https://fluffy.chat/en/faq/#push_without_google_services