6 ms·

I think Sony overestimates the amount of piracy that this will enable. I softmodded my Wii long ago (in order to unlock the region to play Japanese and Europea

by 9999 14y ago

I think Sony overestimates the amount of piracy that this will enable. I softmodded my Wii long ago (in order to unlock the region to play Japanese and European games on a U.S. Wii). Ever since it's been an incredible pain in the butt to keep it updated to the latest modded firmware revisions in order to play legitimate games. Almost every time I buy a new game I have to dig through an incredibly dense array of sketchy forum posts and file sharing sites to find the newly patched custom firmware. If a person were looking to play a game on its release day (legitimate or pirated), they would find the process so time consuming and annoying that I doubt more than 1% of Wii owners would bother with it. I would guess the same pattern would repeat for hacked PS3s. Of course, even a 1% loss in sales would be a pretty big blow for Sony and the other developers, but it's debatable whether or not that population would have paid for a pirated game in the first place. Does anyone know if Nintendo ever announced how much they've lost in sales to piracy on the Wii? Has Sony ever released estimates on how much they might lose to piracy?

chairmankaga 14y ago
I think its important to consider not only piracy but the effects of malicious users in online games. It only takes one person to ruin your experience in a game, even worse if you are cheated and can't do anything about it.
- 9999 14y ago
  I have advocated in the past for Sony and MS that they are behaving as mostly rational actors defending their business interests. People using cheats and hacks in multi-player games is another strong case for keeping consoles locked down. More and more I'm questioning the methods they use to do so though. The constant firmware/system software updates that they roll out are incredibly obtrusive. Prior to this generation of consoles one of the things that really made console gaming superior to PC gaming was the ease of use. Buy game. Stick game into console. Play game. Now you buy the game, download it (and wait) or stick it in, install whatever stupid update is required for the game (and wait), restart your stupid console (and wait), install the game (and wait, or don't install it and suffer awful load times), and then after all that maybe you get to play the thing. Meanwhile, PC gaming is way ahead of the curve in this new paradigm in almost every respect. Yes, you often have to download the game, but you can also start installing and playing before it's finished downloading (Diablo 2 let you do this, I'm not sure how common that is), and you don't have to restart your computer due to some stupid firmware update (that is really just there to prevent piracy).
jpablo 14y ago
By the time there are easy to use tools to pirate games in the ps3 (a year maybe as the most recent) there will be a PS4 out and it won't be as important for Sony.
hkmurakami 14y ago
A realization I had when I first started working was just how cheap video games are compared to virtually any other form of entertainment. Movie ticket = $10 / 2 hours = $5/hour Amusement park = $30 / 5 hours = $6/hour Dining out = $20 / 2 hours = $10/hour Video game = $50 / 20 hours = $2.5/hour I don't own any of the latest generation video game consoles, but if I did, I'd certainly be buying a bunch of them via download for their sheer economy in giving me entertainment value.
- derpenxyne 14y ago
  Never thought about it like that but it's true. At $60 a pop (£40 where I live), it's still a lot of money up front.
- dysoco 14y ago
  But in countries like this where every Console game needs to be imported, buying one is completly impossible (Even triplicating it's value), so for example if you go to a store, they won't even have original games: but pirate DVDs.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  Thinking about my own recent expenditures: Movie (Redwood City) - tickets $14, Popcorn+Drink - $8. + 15 minutes of commercial for 1:45 movie = $12/hour. Dinner (at Flemings) - Entre $48, Drink $22, Salad $8, coffee $4, Dessert $7 - 2 Hours = $45/hour. Video Game on my iOS Device - average $1.99, I've had some of them in constant rotation for 2+ years. Reasonably around 50 hours before I play them out Some only 20-30 hours, some 70 - though some (Field Runners, Slay, PvZ, MsPacMan, FlighControl, RopeNFly, Bloons, Galcon, Go) Have held my attention longer.. = $0.04/Hour. I guess that's why I only go to Flemings once or twice a year, movies 8-10 times a year, and have spent $1000+ on the iTunes App Store in the last 4 years.
  - corin_ 14y ago
    I'm sure I'm putting more thought into this than I should, but say $1000 in four years, that equates to one game every 3 days, so 50 hours per game would be pretty high.
CodeMage 14y ago
Maybe I'm an optimist, but I'd like to believe that Sony has managed to change the gamer/customer culture. Before PS3, it was quite normal and easy for people to pirate PlayStation games, even though they had means to buy them. Then came PS3 and people who used to play exclusively pirated games had to either leave the platform or learn to adapt to actually buying games. In many cases, the change from pirating to buying was a positive one: where before people would sometimes have more games than time to play them, now they have to pick and choose and enjoy their games. Sure, maybe PS3 is open to piracy now, but people who have adapted to buying games will probably find it too cumbersome to revert, especially if the rewards are questionable. Or that's what I would like to believe... ;)
- Leynos 14y ago
  Surely the platform only actually matters if you intend on playing online. I've got a PS3 and 360, but never play online (although I don't use them for copied games). I used to worry about gamer score or whatever it's called, but these days I only actually use the ethernet functionality of either when I need to update the firmware to play a game that requires it.
kin 14y ago
I don't know numbers but I'll agree with you what a pain it is nowadays to get a new game working. I've given up and just bought the game. For PS3 I never even bothered to try. The games are so high quality the cost doesn't phase me, especially when the ones I miss go on sale for $15-$20 and Amazon/Toys R Us/Best Buy do buy 2 get 1 free or Buy One Get One 50% off. Of course this is just you and I, no clue on how much piracy really goes on. The one console that it was TOO EASY to pirate was the DS/GBA Wait, no, Dreamcast would have to be the easiest.
drivebyacct2 14y ago
I think the point is that the PS3 is now trivially easy to update to the latest without trouble. In fact, I'm sure there are people working on alternative market interfaces for the PS3 so that you can do it just like it were really connected. Honestly, the Wii is the most annoying console to keep up to date. Since JTAG/RGH on the Xbox, it's just silly easy to pirate, cheat, mod, play old games you couldn't otherwise, etc. I just laugh at this because I think overall you're absolutely right, that this probably doesn't tradeoff with potential sales much. That having been said, I have no sympathy for Sony.
PostOnce 14y ago
Personally I think that Sony and MS are bigger targets for piracy since they have games more appealing to, well, people who would pirate games (18-34 men). A seven year old's mom isn't going to figure out how to pirate Lego Harry Potter on wii. The casual market that Wii targets is also the one least likely to engage in piracy, in my estimation. Wii Fit? Not a target for piracy, even if the dongle wasn't a factor. That said, the Wii is by far the easiest current gen console to play pirated games on.
- Evbn 14y ago
  7 year olds have 18-34 year old male fathers.
  - PostOnce 14y ago
    Without overcomplicating it, I think the 7 year old boys with pirate fathers account for a small percentage of Wii sales, and that they are also more likely to own and play other consoles.
chuppo 14y ago
Ive noticed that there is too much spam concerning PS3 on the internet, perhaps Sony itself or a contractor has the mission to pollute search-phrases like "ps3 hack, ps3 custom firmware" and so on. Before these where leaked the first 3 pages on google for anything relating to hacking the ps3, custom brew etc, where links to really sketchy forums with really sketchy downloads - all leading to similar archives of "custom" firmware for 4.10 for example, the size of ~250MiB which was password locked and you where told to fill out a form on several sites to get the password, basically just a huge time waste. It makes sense, to combat piracy by using spam/scam techniques. That will keep the pirates or would-be pirates out.

by 9999 14y ago

chairmankaga 14y ago

I think its important to consider not only piracy but the effects of malicious users in online games. It only takes one person to ruin your experience in a game, even worse if you are cheated and can't do anything about it.

9999 14y ago
I have advocated in the past for Sony and MS that they are behaving as mostly rational actors defending their business interests. People using cheats and hacks in multi-player games is another strong case for keeping consoles locked down. More and more I'm questioning the methods they use to do so though. The constant firmware/system software updates that they roll out are incredibly obtrusive. Prior to this generation of consoles one of the things that really made console gaming superior to PC gaming was the ease of use. Buy game. Stick game into console. Play game. Now you buy the game, download it (and wait) or stick it in, install whatever stupid update is required for the game (and wait), restart your stupid console (and wait), install the game (and wait, or don't install it and suffer awful load times), and then after all that maybe you get to play the thing. Meanwhile, PC gaming is way ahead of the curve in this new paradigm in almost every respect. Yes, you often have to download the game, but you can also start installing and playing before it's finished downloading (Diablo 2 let you do this, I'm not sure how common that is), and you don't have to restart your computer due to some stupid firmware update (that is really just there to prevent piracy).

jpablo 14y ago

By the time there are easy to use tools to pirate games in the ps3 (a year maybe as the most recent) there will be a PS4 out and it won't be as important for Sony.

hkmurakami 14y ago

A realization I had when I first started working was just how cheap video games are compared to virtually any other form of entertainment. Movie ticket = $10 / 2 hours = $5/hour Amusement park = $30 / 5 hours = $6/hour Dining out = $20 / 2 hours = $10/hour Video game = $50 / 20 hours = $2.5/hour I don't own any of the latest generation video game consoles, but if I did, I'd certainly be buying a bunch of them via download for their sheer economy in giving me entertainment value.

derpenxyne 14y ago
Never thought about it like that but it's true. At $60 a pop (£40 where I live), it's still a lot of money up front.
dysoco 14y ago
But in countries like this where every Console game needs to be imported, buying one is completly impossible (Even triplicating it's value), so for example if you go to a store, they won't even have original games: but pirate DVDs.
ghshephard 14y ago
Thinking about my own recent expenditures: Movie (Redwood City) - tickets $14, Popcorn+Drink - $8. + 15 minutes of commercial for 1:45 movie = $12/hour. Dinner (at Flemings) - Entre $48, Drink $22, Salad $8, coffee $4, Dessert $7 - 2 Hours = $45/hour. Video Game on my iOS Device - average $1.99, I've had some of them in constant rotation for 2+ years. Reasonably around 50 hours before I play them out Some only 20-30 hours, some 70 - though some (Field Runners, Slay, PvZ, MsPacMan, FlighControl, RopeNFly, Bloons, Galcon, Go) Have held my attention longer.. = $0.04/Hour. I guess that's why I only go to Flemings once or twice a year, movies 8-10 times a year, and have spent $1000+ on the iTunes App Store in the last 4 years.
- corin_ 14y ago
  I'm sure I'm putting more thought into this than I should, but say $1000 in four years, that equates to one game every 3 days, so 50 hours per game would be pretty high.

CodeMage 14y ago

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I'd like to believe that Sony has managed to change the gamer/customer culture. Before PS3, it was quite normal and easy for people to pirate PlayStation games, even though they had means to buy them. Then came PS3 and people who used to play exclusively pirated games had to either leave the platform or learn to adapt to actually buying games. In many cases, the change from pirating to buying was a positive one: where before people would sometimes have more games than time to play them, now they have to pick and choose and enjoy their games. Sure, maybe PS3 is open to piracy now, but people who have adapted to buying games will probably find it too cumbersome to revert, especially if the rewards are questionable. Or that's what I would like to believe... ;)

Leynos 14y ago
Surely the platform only actually matters if you intend on playing online. I've got a PS3 and 360, but never play online (although I don't use them for copied games). I used to worry about gamer score or whatever it's called, but these days I only actually use the ethernet functionality of either when I need to update the firmware to play a game that requires it.

kin 14y ago

I don't know numbers but I'll agree with you what a pain it is nowadays to get a new game working. I've given up and just bought the game. For PS3 I never even bothered to try. The games are so high quality the cost doesn't phase me, especially when the ones I miss go on sale for $15-$20 and Amazon/Toys R Us/Best Buy do buy 2 get 1 free or Buy One Get One 50% off. Of course this is just you and I, no clue on how much piracy really goes on. The one console that it was TOO EASY to pirate was the DS/GBA Wait, no, Dreamcast would have to be the easiest.

drivebyacct2 14y ago

I think the point is that the PS3 is now trivially easy to update to the latest without trouble. In fact, I'm sure there are people working on alternative market interfaces for the PS3 so that you can do it just like it were really connected. Honestly, the Wii is the most annoying console to keep up to date. Since JTAG/RGH on the Xbox, it's just silly easy to pirate, cheat, mod, play old games you couldn't otherwise, etc. I just laugh at this because I think overall you're absolutely right, that this probably doesn't tradeoff with potential sales much. That having been said, I have no sympathy for Sony.

PostOnce 14y ago

Personally I think that Sony and MS are bigger targets for piracy since they have games more appealing to, well, people who would pirate games (18-34 men). A seven year old's mom isn't going to figure out how to pirate Lego Harry Potter on wii. The casual market that Wii targets is also the one least likely to engage in piracy, in my estimation. Wii Fit? Not a target for piracy, even if the dongle wasn't a factor. That said, the Wii is by far the easiest current gen console to play pirated games on.

Evbn 14y ago
7 year olds have 18-34 year old male fathers.
- PostOnce 14y ago
  Without overcomplicating it, I think the 7 year old boys with pirate fathers account for a small percentage of Wii sales, and that they are also more likely to own and play other consoles.

chuppo 14y ago

Ive noticed that there is too much spam concerning PS3 on the internet, perhaps Sony itself or a contractor has the mission to pollute search-phrases like "ps3 hack, ps3 custom firmware" and so on. Before these where leaked the first 3 pages on google for anything relating to hacking the ps3, custom brew etc, where links to really sketchy forums with really sketchy downloads - all leading to similar archives of "custom" firmware for 4.10 for example, the size of ~250MiB which was password locked and you where told to fill out a form on several sites to get the password, basically just a huge time waste. It makes sense, to combat piracy by using spam/scam techniques. That will keep the pirates or would-be pirates out.