3 ms·

Grow a spine, you don't get a pass to do unethical things because your job depends on it.

dheera 8mo ago
Huh? Another dose of reality: I need to pay rent, pay medical bills, eat, and survive. As long as I'm dependent on an income to do that, I do whatever the employer wants as long as it's legal. When I'm financially free, I'll have the space to think about the ethics of my work. You want better? Fix the system so that I'm financially free earlier in life. Tax me less, charge me less rent, give me free healthcare, and let me save up cash for the rest of my life. When the system has delivered that OKR to me, I'll be able to put ethics first going forward. Until then, I still need to earn money to survive. I worked for Amazon for a couple years. Not on the above project, but nevertheless, I did what I was told. One of the reasons I went there was that I needed a surgery to replace my implanted defibrillator, which my life depends on, and (a) Amazon's sponsored health insurance would pay for it (b) Amazon's cash comp would be enough to hire lawyers to fight with insurance if necessary. Insurance companies usually pay what they're supposed to if there is a big tech HR behind it; they have a habit, in my experience, of not paying out what they're supposed to if they don't have something to fear. I was in startup land before, and often couldn't pay my medical bills (because insurance would cop out and not pay, and I didn't have money for lawyers to fight them) and had to forgo critical cardiac imaging procedures during that time.
- blibble 8mo ago
  > I worked for Amazon for a couple years. why am I not surprised
- int_19h 8mo ago
  Does it have to be that particular employer though?
  - dheera 8mo ago
    Not everyone has their pick of employers, especially during mass layoffs. I arguably joined the most ethical of the offers I actually got at the time. If you're against me joining an employer, maybe send me an alternative offer and then we can talk. Otherwise it is not constructive.
    - int_19h 8mo ago
      I'm currently unemployed myself because I didn't want to work for a big tech company that announced a public partnership with Palantir. I get the "family to feed" etc angle. But at some point we have to realize that this is not some kind of abstract moral dilemma, not when that software is actively hurting other people.

Huh? Another dose of reality: I need to pay rent, pay medical bills, eat, and survive. As long as I'm dependent on an income to do that, I do whatever the employer wants as long as it's legal. When I'm financially free, I'll have the space to think about the ethics of my work. You want better? Fix the system so that I'm financially free earlier in life. Tax me less, charge me less rent, give me free healthcare, and let me save up cash for the rest of my life. When the system has delivered that OKR to me, I'll be able to put ethics first going forward. Until then, I still need to earn money to survive. I worked for Amazon for a couple years. Not on the above project, but nevertheless, I did what I was told. One of the reasons I went there was that I needed a surgery to replace my implanted defibrillator, which my life depends on, and (a) Amazon's sponsored health insurance would pay for it (b) Amazon's cash comp would be enough to hire lawyers to fight with insurance if necessary. Insurance companies usually pay what they're supposed to if there is a big tech HR behind it; they have a habit, in my experience, of not paying out what they're supposed to if they don't have something to fear. I was in startup land before, and often couldn't pay my medical bills (because insurance would cop out and not pay, and I didn't have money for lawyers to fight them) and had to forgo critical cardiac imaging procedures during that time.

blibble 8mo ago
> I worked for Amazon for a couple years. why am I not surprised
int_19h 8mo ago
Does it have to be that particular employer though?
- dheera 8mo ago
  Not everyone has their pick of employers, especially during mass layoffs. I arguably joined the most ethical of the offers I actually got at the time. If you're against me joining an employer, maybe send me an alternative offer and then we can talk. Otherwise it is not constructive.
  - int_19h 8mo ago
    I'm currently unemployed myself because I didn't want to work for a big tech company that announced a public partnership with Palantir. I get the "family to feed" etc angle. But at some point we have to realize that this is not some kind of abstract moral dilemma, not when that software is actively hurting other people.