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US labels SpaceX a common carrier by air, will regulate firm under railway law
- ronsor 9mo agoReminder that this now includes xAI and X
- delichon 9mo agoNo, they would have to qualify as transportation carriers. They are still subject to the NLRB.
- stonogo 9mo agoNo, because they merged with SpaceX. They are not separate entities.
- delichon 9mo agoUnder US law, the NLRB excludes employers subject to the Railway Labor Act. xAI and X would need their own classification. It does not propagate automatically through ownership or mergers. https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/nlrb-general-counsel-wants-more-input-9695421 https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/nlrb-general-counsel-wants... https://www.hunton.com/hunton-employment-labor-perspectives/navigating-jurisdictional-boundaries-nlrb-issues-guidance-on-referring-cases-to-the-nmb https://www.hunton.com/hunton-employment-labor-perspectives/...
- gzread 9mo ago[dead]
- Maxatar 9mo agoThey did not merge into a single entity, they continue to be separate entities. SpaceX owns xAI, and xAI in turn owns X.
- celeritascelery 9mo agoCaveat that I know very little about these labor relations laws. However from what I gathered from the article some entities like airlines and railroads are regulated differently than normal companies because they provide movement for essential goods. This means it involves more steps to go on strike etc. And now spaceX is considered to be one of those types of companies. As rocketry because more critical for our space infrastructure, I feel like this makes sense.
- zardo 9mo ago> As rocketry [becomes] more critical for our space infrastructure, I feel like this makes sense. The justification for denying workers rights they would otherwise have was the extreme importance of moving essential goods. We're not going to have famines if SpaceX has a month long strike.
- cpursley 9mo agoNot yet, at least not until the space rock mining begins.
- danaris 9mo agoNot then either, unless you like eating space rocks.
- shigawire 9mo agoThere could be a world where mineral supplies are exhausted/inaccessible to the point that extraterrestrial metals are needed to maintain the supply chains we need to feed billions of people. Edit to say - that's probably a long way off / not likely
- Firerouge 9mo agoThere could be a world where the muon radiation fallout of WWIV has contaminated all unmined terrestrial mineral sources.
- jjgreen 9mo agoSleep with dogs, wake with fleas.
- SilverElfin 9mo agoThis is so completely dishonest and fraudulent, but also completely in line with the kind of corporate bribery and favoritism towards the family and friends and donors and bribers/lobbyers of the Trump administration. SpaceX is not a mail carrier or common carrier by any means. It is executing contracts for launches. And comparing it to railroads and classifying it similarly is also unethical. Railroad workers have been grossly abused by companies like BNSF, with terrible working conditions and pay and little ability to push back. Finally, the fact that the Trump administration would apply this to all of SpaceX, including Twitter, is also insane.
- shimman 9mo agoJust more ammunition to nationalize SpaceX once the wheel turns in the other direction.
- steveBK123 9mo agoYeah I was talking about this with some friends.. Sure historically you could probably take educated guesses with a little homework on PAC donations, etc.. as to how different CEOs voted. And occasionally they took (or more often, they would allow their company PR department to take) stands on the social issues on the day. But we are in entirely uncharted waters the last 2 years of CEOs going all-in fanboying, actively campaigning for, debasing themselves with political swag, and enabling the grifting of the current administration. In some cases we have wild eyed conspiracy theory posting and accusations of treason/disloyalty/whatever against the other party by said CEOs (and VC bros). Insanely, many of these CEOs run companies where the US government is one of their main customers. Eventually the parties rotate, and these guys have opened themselves up to a large backlash.
- hydrogen7800 9mo ago> Eventually the parties rotate They're counting on this not happening.
- Sabinus 9mo agoThe CEOs are responding to the relationship Trump wants. He's a king that likes supplicants who bribe him. The captains of industry then oblige.
- Animats 9mo agoSpace-X wants to be regulated under the Railway Labor Act? [1] They should be careful of what they ask for. Some anti-union activities such as fussing with the bargaining unit definition don't apply under the RLA. Space-X is going to end up as a union shop. Airlines are under the Railway Labor Act because Congress put them there in 1932, and they are almost totally unionized. [1] https://nmb.gov/NMB_Application/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Railway-Labor-Act-amended-Feb-14-2012.pdf https://nmb.gov/NMB_Application/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/R...
- CGMthrowaway 9mo agoPretty sure Elon believes in 5-10 years when unionization is a threat, most union-type workers will already be Optimus drones anyway
- jahnu 9mo agoPretty sure he doesn’t believe anything of the sort but is coasting from promise to promise to keep the investments rolling in.
- mcmcmc 9mo agoTo be fair he does enough hallucinogens he may actually believe his own bullsit.
- RupertSalt 9mo agoDon't worry. The SpaceX employees will never agree on how to pronounce "unionized".
- Stevvo 9mo agoA Union that can't strike is a union in name only.
- avs733 9mo agoA work to rule union would probably do more damage to space x than a strike…
- jamesmishra 9mo agoSo? This sounds like a good thing. If it isn't, then voters should vote for the opposite policy--allowing the airlines to stop working whenever they want.
- hackyhacky 9mo agoEven if you believe that unions are uniformly a bad thing, this instance is a case of abusing the law to reward friends of the administration. SpaceX is not a mail carrier and the law was not intended to apply to it in this way. It's clear that Musk wants help with his union problem, and this is the solution.
- Multicomp 9mo ago> this instance is a case of abusing the law to reward friends of the administration I don't think this is an interesting take for anyone, but this reminds me of how the nineteenth century American political system was called the spoils system, and this seems like a twenty first century echo of that.
- hackyhacky 9mo agoThat is a completely apt comparison, especially in light of a recent SCOTUS decisions that allow the president to appoint loyalists to positions previously supposed to be non-partisan.
- mudil 9mo agoGood. Otherwise this President Reagan quote comes to mind: "Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it."
- nxobject 9mo agoWhat’s the relevance on that quote here?
- xp84 9mo agoFrom a linked article from the first linked article: > SpaceX quickly fired the employees, with President Gwynne Shotwell explaining in an email to the remaining staff that the “letter, solicitations and general process made employees feel uncomfortable, intimidated and bullied, and/or angry because the letter pressured them to sign onto something that did not reflect their views.” > “Blanketing thousands of people across the company with repeated unsolicited emails and asking them to sign letters and fill out unsponsored surveys during the work day is not acceptable,” Shotwell wrote to SpaceX staff. The fired employees filed charges with the NLRB in November 2022. Let's set aside whether or not you like Mr. Musk at all. Personally I think saying he's been a "frequent source of embarrassment" is being generous to him. And also set aside whether it is or isn't "like an airline" or whatever. Just to speak of the complaint itself, does it strike anyone else as absurd? If I start circulating messages to thousands of my coworkers that "Mr. CEO is an embarrassment and terrible, sign my petition blah blah blah" I would not think it unfair that that same guy stops signing my paychecks. What am I missing here about US "labor laws"? I know you're protected from retaliation when you are whistleblowing, reporting harassment, etc. -- but these people's problem seems to just be that they hate their CEO (but still claim to want to work for him).
- huxley 9mo agoFirst, this is taking Shotwell’s characterization at face value, that is not a great idea when dealing with a Musk corporation. Musk and his executives lie like other people breathe. Second, one might believe in a company’s mission or be interested in working in that area without supporting or even liking the owner. Requiring you to like the owner would be disastrous for many if not most industries. Lastly, how do you imagine unions get formed without communication among employees?
- andreareina 9mo ago> Approximately one year after eight former SpaceX employees represented by Lieff Cabraser and Burgess Law Offices filed unfair labor practice charges against SpaceX, the National Labor Relations Board (“NLRB”) has concluded its investigation and issued a complaint against the company alleging 37 separate violations of law. The charges stem from the company’s response to the employees’ letter to SpaceX’s executive team, which expressed concern about allegations of sexual harassment by CEO Elon Musk, and his harmful behavior on Twitter that hurt the company’s reputation, infected the company culture and created a toxic work environment. In response to the employees’ plea for systemic change to correct these concerns, SpaceX launched a campaign of intimidation and coercion: pulling employees into clandestine interrogations by HR, falsely claiming the meetings were attorney-client privileged, and telling employees to keep the meetings a secret even from their managers. SpaceX also fired nine employees for their involvement in the letter. > The NLRB’s complaint includes 37 separate violations of Section 8(a)(1) of the National Labor Relations Act: 11 for coercive statements, 2 for coercive statements/implied threats, 7 for interrogation, 4 for unlawful instructions, 3 for impression of surveillance, and 10 for retaliation for involvement in protected concerted activity. https://www.lieffcabraser.com/2024/01/lieff-cabraser-and-co-counsel-announce-nlrb-issues-complaint-against-spacex/ https://www.lieffcabraser.com/2024/01/lieff-cabraser-and-co-... The complainants allege they did more than just complain about Elon's personality, and that SpaceX did more than just fire them. I'm not familiar with US labor laws but campaigning for better work conditions sounds union-adjacent. > Charging Party Deborah Lawrence said: “SpaceX’s ‘mission above all else’ mentality hurts everyone in the organization by allowing people to get away with harmful behavior, including harassment, groping, and physical violence, directed disproportionately at women. The toxic culture has resulted in many hard-working people, who were otherwise highly motivated by the company’s mission, quitting. We wrote the open letter to leadership not out of malice, but because we cared about the mission and the people around us. We believed that SpaceX could be a better place and that you can have a healthy, safe workplace and still reach the stars.”
- albatross79 9mo ago"He can't keep getting away with it!" But seriously, how does this degenerate scammer keep getting away with it, it's unbelievable. Has any con man in history operated as long as Elon at this scale? You'd probably have to go back to ancient times. Or maybe it's just recently that people have become so gullible, social media probably plays a big role.
- zoom6628 9mo agoThis is wonderful news. As a "mail carrier" for US govt they should be made a branch of Post Service and then under Trump benevolent guidance and DOGE goals the department can be cut down to 3 people and a laptop. Billions in Gov subsidies saved right there. Done. Make it so.
- barbacoa 9mo agoSince Twitter is now part of SpaceX, does that mean Twitter is classified as a common carrier too? Can Twitter no longer refuse to allow certain individuals use their platform? Honest question here.
- inemesitaffia 9mo agoRidiculous
- LargoLasskhyfv 9mo agoSo ahead of their time. The already got positive rocket control.