4 ms·

Why are we overthinking this? It was disconnected by the kidnapper, not erased by him. All the FBI has to do is reconnect it (or even just find the MAC address)

by 1970-01-01 9mo ago

Why are we overthinking this? It was disconnected by the kidnapper, not erased by him. All the FBI has to do is reconnect it (or even just find the MAC address) and wait for Google to provide them the footage via a request. https://policies.google.com/terms/information-requests?hl=en-US#:~:text=threats%2C%20school%20shootings%2C-,kidnappings,-%2C%20suicide%20prevention%2C%20and https://policies.google.com/terms/information-requests?hl=en...

eigencoder 9mo ago
I heard that Nancy Guthrie was not paying for the subscription that let her view her old video footage. So it's interesting that Google was still storing all that footage.
- draw_down 9mo ago
  [dead]
- sandworm101 9mo ago
  The google/ring backbone service people are likely disconnected from google's money collecting people. It is probably just easier to collect all of it and then check for payments only when users login to get at the footage. Otherwise, every fetch of footage from a camera would trigger a query to the payment system.
  - chinathrow 9mo ago
    If I don't pay, they should not store footage. What is so difficult about that?
    - patmorgan23 9mo ago
      If you don't want them to store footage, don't buy a cloud connected camera
      - plagiarist 9mo ago
        Yes. People need to stop treating corporations as if they will honor the spirit of an agreement instead of whatever interpretation gains them the most value.
    - yndoendo 9mo ago
      With Google, you are the product. Those that pay for their services just add more to their bank account. There is a reason they removed _Don't be Evil_. Decouple and move on from them is the only thing you can do.
    - otterley 9mo ago
      What does the ToS that you agree to say about the matter? That’s the controlling document.
      - hulitu 9mo ago
        "In particular, we sometimes make legally-required updates, which are modifications that keep digital content, services, or goods in conformity with the law. We make these updates to our digital content, services, and goods for safety or security reasons, and to make sure they meet the quality standards that you expect, such as those described in the Legal guarantee section. We may automatically install updates that address significant safety or security risks. For other updates, you can choose whether you want them installed." "We also collect the content you create, upload, or receive from others when using our services. This includes things like email you write and receive, photos and videos you save, docs and spreadsheets you create, and comments you make on YouTube videos."
    - hoherd 9mo ago
      AI training data is valuable. They're not going to just throw it away.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 9mo ago
    It is easier to constantly upload video rather than check a boolean if current customer? An active customer status is not something that changes per second. Can easily be cached for multiple hours.
    - SR2Z 9mo ago
      I think that even free users get recent videos saved, but I'm not positive. If videos are constantly being uploaded, why bother checking?
krisbolton 9mo ago
The article even says "[...] some Nest devices record event histories and store them on-device. The third-gen wired Nest Doorbell can save up to 10 seconds of clips, while the first and second-gen wired doorbells can save up to three hours of event history, all without a subscription.".
- kbelder 9mo ago
  >The third-gen wired Nest Doorbell can save up to 10 seconds of clips, while the first and second-gen wired doorbells can save up to three hours of event history Wow, the march of progress.
  - plagiarist 9mo ago
    It's like you can see the moment they started gaining market share and could deliver shittier products.
    - lazide 9mo ago
      It’s all optimization.
mrandish 9mo ago
I don't have a Nest but I suspect it's even simpler than that. She didn't have a subscription but the devices still store video locally up to the capacity of onboard storage. These recent local clips used to all be locally accessible but to "increase subscription value", Google started making that locally stored data inaccessible without subscription. However, the local storage is just a rolling buffer and the clips beyond the last 10 seconds are still there in local RAM and either not shown in the interface or deleted in the file system (but just by blanking the name in the directory, not a secure overwrite erase). Either the FBI forensic data recovery people or Google/Nest finally ran a sector-by-sector file recovery. I'm just surprised it took so long. I assume maybe because the local storage on those doorbells isn't a removable SD card so they had to gain access some other way. Frankly, I'm surprised how many people buy devices which are cloud-only. At this point, I generally won't consider any IOT devices if the manufacturer even offers an optional cloud subscription (unless the firmware is open source). Too many companies have now locked down previously open devices to force cloud subscription (looking at you Chamberlain/LiftMaster assholes). EDIT TO ADD: Saw this Verge article by someone who bothered to find out how current Nest doorbells work. It basically confirms what I thought with the nuance that some local files actually get uploaded to the cloud even without a subscription but aren't accessible until the user pays. https://www.theverge.com/tech/877235/nancy-guthrie-google-nest-cam-video-storage https://www.theverge.com/tech/877235/nancy-guthrie-google-ne...

eigencoder 9mo ago

I heard that Nancy Guthrie was not paying for the subscription that let her view her old video footage. So it's interesting that Google was still storing all that footage.

draw_down 9mo ago
[dead]
sandworm101 9mo ago
The google/ring backbone service people are likely disconnected from google's money collecting people. It is probably just easier to collect all of it and then check for payments only when users login to get at the footage. Otherwise, every fetch of footage from a camera would trigger a query to the payment system.
- chinathrow 9mo ago
  If I don't pay, they should not store footage. What is so difficult about that?
  - patmorgan23 9mo ago
    If you don't want them to store footage, don't buy a cloud connected camera
    - plagiarist 9mo ago
      Yes. People need to stop treating corporations as if they will honor the spirit of an agreement instead of whatever interpretation gains them the most value.
  - yndoendo 9mo ago
    With Google, you are the product. Those that pay for their services just add more to their bank account. There is a reason they removed _Don't be Evil_. Decouple and move on from them is the only thing you can do.
  - otterley 9mo ago
    What does the ToS that you agree to say about the matter? That’s the controlling document.
    - hulitu 9mo ago
      "In particular, we sometimes make legally-required updates, which are modifications that keep digital content, services, or goods in conformity with the law. We make these updates to our digital content, services, and goods for safety or security reasons, and to make sure they meet the quality standards that you expect, such as those described in the Legal guarantee section. We may automatically install updates that address significant safety or security risks. For other updates, you can choose whether you want them installed." "We also collect the content you create, upload, or receive from others when using our services. This includes things like email you write and receive, photos and videos you save, docs and spreadsheets you create, and comments you make on YouTube videos."
  - hoherd 9mo ago
    AI training data is valuable. They're not going to just throw it away.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 9mo ago
  It is easier to constantly upload video rather than check a boolean if current customer? An active customer status is not something that changes per second. Can easily be cached for multiple hours.
  - SR2Z 9mo ago
    I think that even free users get recent videos saved, but I'm not positive. If videos are constantly being uploaded, why bother checking?

krisbolton 9mo ago

The article even says "[...] some Nest devices record event histories and store them on-device. The third-gen wired Nest Doorbell can save up to 10 seconds of clips, while the first and second-gen wired doorbells can save up to three hours of event history, all without a subscription.".

kbelder 9mo ago
>The third-gen wired Nest Doorbell can save up to 10 seconds of clips, while the first and second-gen wired doorbells can save up to three hours of event history Wow, the march of progress.
- plagiarist 9mo ago
  It's like you can see the moment they started gaining market share and could deliver shittier products.
  - lazide 9mo ago
    It’s all optimization.

mrandish 9mo ago

I don't have a Nest but I suspect it's even simpler than that. She didn't have a subscription but the devices still store video locally up to the capacity of onboard storage. These recent local clips used to all be locally accessible but to "increase subscription value", Google started making that locally stored data inaccessible without subscription. However, the local storage is just a rolling buffer and the clips beyond the last 10 seconds are still there in local RAM and either not shown in the interface or deleted in the file system (but just by blanking the name in the directory, not a secure overwrite erase). Either the FBI forensic data recovery people or Google/Nest finally ran a sector-by-sector file recovery. I'm just surprised it took so long. I assume maybe because the local storage on those doorbells isn't a removable SD card so they had to gain access some other way. Frankly, I'm surprised how many people buy devices which are cloud-only. At this point, I generally won't consider any IOT devices if the manufacturer even offers an optional cloud subscription (unless the firmware is open source). Too many companies have now locked down previously open devices to force cloud subscription (looking at you Chamberlain/LiftMaster assholes). EDIT TO ADD: Saw this Verge article by someone who bothered to find out how current Nest doorbells work. It basically confirms what I thought with the nuance that some local files actually get uploaded to the cloud even without a subscription but aren't accessible until the user pays. https://www.theverge.com/tech/877235/nancy-guthrie-google-nest-cam-video-storage https://www.theverge.com/tech/877235/nancy-guthrie-google-ne...