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See heading 'The myth of a safe deposit box seizures order' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

See heading 'The myth of a safe deposit box seizures order' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 As an aside I wonder what percentage of the population had boxes back then - compared to now. I mean no one I know has them now - almost everyone saves in currency/stocks etc. Why so anti gold then if you are aware of the perils of saving in currency. Silverbug? :)

beagle3 14y ago
> See heading 'The myth of a safe deposit box seizures order' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 Thanks, I was unaware. > I mean no one I know has them now - Banks have essentially stepped out of the safe business (virtual storage is easier and more lucrative). Those that still offer such services keep raising the prices in an attempt to drive customers away. My business backups were stored in such a bank safety deposit box between 2002 and 2006, at which point they stopped offering the service. > almost everyone saves in currency/stocks etc. "saves" is not the word I would use in this case; I'd use "attempts to store value" for currency and "gambles recklessly" for stocks. But even if we accept "save" - the reason is, of course, the government - think about how hard it has become to keep your gold: try taking delivery of bullion, then try selling it back; you'd probably take 10-20% spread hit if you succeed at all; now try with 10 bars, and you'll likely not succeed at all. > Why so anti gold then if you are aware of the perils of saving in currency. Silverbug? :) Oh, you've got me completely wrong. I'm not anti gold. I'm completely anti fiat money and QE. Its just that I've spent a considerable amount of time trying to figure out how to maintain the value of any assets I have, and am unconvinced that I can use gold for that purpose; not because it's not a good store of value (it is, as are silver, and potentially even platinum and rhodium), but because the logistics are such that I'm unlikely to be able to execute it. Sure, a few coins here and there are easy to manage. But when I sell my apartment, and want that chunk of cash to maintain its purchasing power, a few coins won't cut it.
wintersFright 14y ago
I normally lurk so I don't know why I can't reply to your most recent, so replying here. Agree on your criticism of my loose word of the term saves. I don't agree with your reasons on why people don't buy gold though - most would have no idea what spread is and how it works. From my experience of trying to convince my friends and family to save something in gold - they just find the idea totally foreign of buying a metal that doesn't earn income...even if said income is not keeping up with inflation. Interesting perspective on the boxes. I only have one so don't know about increasing/decreasing availability - I know there is a waiting list for the ones at my bank in the city. I find the price very reasonable for the value I obtain from it (150/year). So what are your thoughts on storing that apartment cash then? I am a goldbug but am interested in other thoughts on preservation of purchasing power.
- beagle3 14y ago
  > I normally lurk so I don't know why I can't reply to your most recent, so replying here. The deeper the response is in the thread, the longer you have to wait from posting until you can reply. > From my experience of trying to convince my friends and family to save something in gold - they just find the idea totally foreign of buying a metal that doesn't earn income My grandma kept a stash of gold and jewelry, and she knew why - she had to run away on the eve of WWII, with a small suitcase. My mom knew that she needs to have such a stash, but gave up building it because it was becoming increasingly hard to do. I know I need one, but it's becoming impossible to do at the volume I need. > So what are your thoughts on storing that apartment cash then? I'm frustrated, but I have no acceptable solution so far. I'm diversified over foreign currencies and some non-bubblish commodity futures (that are likely to clear even if there's a run; the COMEX gold futures reflect more than the available gold, and if trading stopped tomorrow, it could not settle and there would be huge defaults). But it's still all backed by fiat and lies. I don't like that; I don't have a solution.
  - wintersFright 14y ago
    >>My grandma kept a stash... Interesting. I've asked my grandma how she saved given she was in the USD=42oz period but her response was we never had enough to save (postwar period really). My mum would rather believe a nobel prize winner rather than me :) As with evertthing, views on these matters depend on ones life experience. >> impossible to do at the volume I need Ha! a good problem to have! >>if trading stopped tomorrow, it could not settle and there would be huge defaults Exactly right! but if you trade in comex futures then you are still trading in paper - albeit paper gold. When the musical chairs stop then those holding the real physical metal will be ok imho. I don't want to be a christian missionary trying to convert but you may find the concept of freegold and the fofoa blog worth a read. In a nutshell, freegold is about thinking through the transition when the USD/paper gold market collapses and looking at what the giant players (central banks) are doing. If you subscribe to that theory then there are some good arguments why there would be no tax on gold in the future (a black market would arise to ship the gold to any region where it is not taxed). YMMV.

beagle3 14y ago

> See heading 'The myth of a safe deposit box seizures order' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 Thanks, I was unaware. > I mean no one I know has them now - Banks have essentially stepped out of the safe business (virtual storage is easier and more lucrative). Those that still offer such services keep raising the prices in an attempt to drive customers away. My business backups were stored in such a bank safety deposit box between 2002 and 2006, at which point they stopped offering the service. > almost everyone saves in currency/stocks etc. "saves" is not the word I would use in this case; I'd use "attempts to store value" for currency and "gambles recklessly" for stocks. But even if we accept "save" - the reason is, of course, the government - think about how hard it has become to keep your gold: try taking delivery of bullion, then try selling it back; you'd probably take 10-20% spread hit if you succeed at all; now try with 10 bars, and you'll likely not succeed at all. > Why so anti gold then if you are aware of the perils of saving in currency. Silverbug? :) Oh, you've got me completely wrong. I'm not anti gold. I'm completely anti fiat money and QE. Its just that I've spent a considerable amount of time trying to figure out how to maintain the value of any assets I have, and am unconvinced that I can use gold for that purpose; not because it's not a good store of value (it is, as are silver, and potentially even platinum and rhodium), but because the logistics are such that I'm unlikely to be able to execute it. Sure, a few coins here and there are easy to manage. But when I sell my apartment, and want that chunk of cash to maintain its purchasing power, a few coins won't cut it.

wintersFright 14y ago

I normally lurk so I don't know why I can't reply to your most recent, so replying here. Agree on your criticism of my loose word of the term saves. I don't agree with your reasons on why people don't buy gold though - most would have no idea what spread is and how it works. From my experience of trying to convince my friends and family to save something in gold - they just find the idea totally foreign of buying a metal that doesn't earn income...even if said income is not keeping up with inflation. Interesting perspective on the boxes. I only have one so don't know about increasing/decreasing availability - I know there is a waiting list for the ones at my bank in the city. I find the price very reasonable for the value I obtain from it (150/year). So what are your thoughts on storing that apartment cash then? I am a goldbug but am interested in other thoughts on preservation of purchasing power.

beagle3 14y ago
> I normally lurk so I don't know why I can't reply to your most recent, so replying here. The deeper the response is in the thread, the longer you have to wait from posting until you can reply. > From my experience of trying to convince my friends and family to save something in gold - they just find the idea totally foreign of buying a metal that doesn't earn income My grandma kept a stash of gold and jewelry, and she knew why - she had to run away on the eve of WWII, with a small suitcase. My mom knew that she needs to have such a stash, but gave up building it because it was becoming increasingly hard to do. I know I need one, but it's becoming impossible to do at the volume I need. > So what are your thoughts on storing that apartment cash then? I'm frustrated, but I have no acceptable solution so far. I'm diversified over foreign currencies and some non-bubblish commodity futures (that are likely to clear even if there's a run; the COMEX gold futures reflect more than the available gold, and if trading stopped tomorrow, it could not settle and there would be huge defaults). But it's still all backed by fiat and lies. I don't like that; I don't have a solution.
- wintersFright 14y ago
  >>My grandma kept a stash... Interesting. I've asked my grandma how she saved given she was in the USD=42oz period but her response was we never had enough to save (postwar period really). My mum would rather believe a nobel prize winner rather than me :) As with evertthing, views on these matters depend on ones life experience. >> impossible to do at the volume I need Ha! a good problem to have! >>if trading stopped tomorrow, it could not settle and there would be huge defaults Exactly right! but if you trade in comex futures then you are still trading in paper - albeit paper gold. When the musical chairs stop then those holding the real physical metal will be ok imho. I don't want to be a christian missionary trying to convert but you may find the concept of freegold and the fofoa blog worth a read. In a nutshell, freegold is about thinking through the transition when the USD/paper gold market collapses and looking at what the giant players (central banks) are doing. If you subscribe to that theory then there are some good arguments why there would be no tax on gold in the future (a black market would arise to ship the gold to any region where it is not taxed). YMMV.