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> In many places around the world, several currencies exist and are used simultaneously. You need to back this argument up with a good reference. [EDIT: multi

by bitops 14y ago

> In many places around the world, several currencies exist and are used simultaneously. You need to back this argument up with a good reference. [EDIT: multiple currencies in the same country. Argentina is a beautiful country but it has had some severe issues over the years. You need to have one currency before you can do things like local currencies. URVs in Brazil were a genius way of pulling this off.]

iand 14y ago
30 seconds on google would have turned up this for you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_circulating_currencies#List_of_circulating_currencies_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_circulating_currencies...
- bitops 14y ago
  Okay, yes - technically speaking, there are countries out there who have more than one official currency. But with every single listing of a country that has more than one currency, there is a political reason why (see Ecuador) and it has real implications for the society to use a currency that you don't control.
  - iand 14y ago
    You use the phrase "technically speaking" pejoratively as though there is some special set of rules that make these countries multi-currency. There isn't. It's very plainly correct that many countries in the world use multiple currencies. I assume one of the implications you refer to is that the people have a choice of currencies and hence protection against government sponsored inflation.
benreesman 14y ago
Second hand, but friends who have recently returned from Argentina described it in precisely these terms. Your mileage may vary (haven't been myself).
mseebach 14y ago
So there's cause and effect: Are countries unstable because they have multiple currencies, or are people using multiple currencies because the country is unstable. You seem (correct me if I'm wrong) to be arguing for the former, "gold bugs" will generally argue the latter.
- bitops 14y ago
  No, you're right, I am saying it is destabilizing for a country to have more than one currency. It does weird things to culture. Look at why Europe is so messed up right now - they adopted a single currency without a real government to match. Much as I might not like her, Margaret Thatcher was right when she said that "single currency is a federal Europe through the back door". It's either that or big trouble down the line. I see you're from Denmark, so think of Legoland (in Billund, I assume you've been - it's silly!). Yes, they take all kinds of currency there, but it's very isolated and localized. At a broader national level, there is just the (sic) kroner. I've never once paid with US dollars at a pølsevogn in Copenhagen. :) The full argument is quite long, but at heart, yes - I believe that the gold standard was a bad idea and remains a bad idea. Going back to it will not solve any of our current economic problems, it's a waste of time. Thanks for sticking with the conversation btw! It was fun. :)
  - mseebach 14y ago
    You can actually usually pay with euros in most establishments catering to tourists, including pølsevogne. Like most casual cash transactions in Denmark, it's unlikely to go on the books, though. Also, I'm not arguing for (or against, for that matter) the gold standard, just that if people feel they're better off transacting in a different currency than the single, nationally sanctioned one, they should be able to do so without incurring a forceful response by the government. For the record, I don't think that freedom extends to producing coins that are easily mistaken for those belonging to a different currency. > Thanks for sticking with the conversation btw! It was fun. :) Likewise, although I would still appreciate a response to http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4697030 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4697030
  - icebraining 14y ago
brc 14y ago
Many places have more than one official currency. Many more have more than one unofficial currency. The USD is unofficially used as a currency in many, many countries around the world, as an adjunct to the local currency. In the days before the Euro, it was quite common for places to accept multiple currencies in the one location, especially in border areas or smaller countries with lower floats. It's not such a big deal. Just about every international traveller works in two currencies by converting the 'away' currency into their 'home' currency in their head with each purchase. I have actually been offered the opportunity to pay with my home currency on visa POS machines while travelling. There are undoubtedly efficiencies to having a central currency, but when the central government is systematically destroying the unit of value, inefficiency of multiple currencies is a very small price to pay for being able to escape that. That's why Zimbabwe has the highest number of currencies on the list that was linked above [Edit: position is relative, the list that ianb linked]

by bitops 14y ago

iand 14y ago

30 seconds on google would have turned up this for you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_circulating_currencies#List_of_circulating_currencies_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_circulating_currencies...

bitops 14y ago
Okay, yes - technically speaking, there are countries out there who have more than one official currency. But with every single listing of a country that has more than one currency, there is a political reason why (see Ecuador) and it has real implications for the society to use a currency that you don't control.
- iand 14y ago
  You use the phrase "technically speaking" pejoratively as though there is some special set of rules that make these countries multi-currency. There isn't. It's very plainly correct that many countries in the world use multiple currencies. I assume one of the implications you refer to is that the people have a choice of currencies and hence protection against government sponsored inflation.

benreesman 14y ago

Second hand, but friends who have recently returned from Argentina described it in precisely these terms. Your mileage may vary (haven't been myself).

mseebach 14y ago

So there's cause and effect: Are countries unstable because they have multiple currencies, or are people using multiple currencies because the country is unstable. You seem (correct me if I'm wrong) to be arguing for the former, "gold bugs" will generally argue the latter.

bitops 14y ago
No, you're right, I am saying it is destabilizing for a country to have more than one currency. It does weird things to culture. Look at why Europe is so messed up right now - they adopted a single currency without a real government to match. Much as I might not like her, Margaret Thatcher was right when she said that "single currency is a federal Europe through the back door". It's either that or big trouble down the line. I see you're from Denmark, so think of Legoland (in Billund, I assume you've been - it's silly!). Yes, they take all kinds of currency there, but it's very isolated and localized. At a broader national level, there is just the (sic) kroner. I've never once paid with US dollars at a pølsevogn in Copenhagen. :) The full argument is quite long, but at heart, yes - I believe that the gold standard was a bad idea and remains a bad idea. Going back to it will not solve any of our current economic problems, it's a waste of time. Thanks for sticking with the conversation btw! It was fun. :)
- mseebach 14y ago
  You can actually usually pay with euros in most establishments catering to tourists, including pølsevogne. Like most casual cash transactions in Denmark, it's unlikely to go on the books, though. Also, I'm not arguing for (or against, for that matter) the gold standard, just that if people feel they're better off transacting in a different currency than the single, nationally sanctioned one, they should be able to do so without incurring a forceful response by the government. For the record, I don't think that freedom extends to producing coins that are easily mistaken for those belonging to a different currency. > Thanks for sticking with the conversation btw! It was fun. :) Likewise, although I would still appreciate a response to http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4697030 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4697030
- icebraining 14y ago

brc 14y ago

Many places have more than one official currency. Many more have more than one unofficial currency. The USD is unofficially used as a currency in many, many countries around the world, as an adjunct to the local currency. In the days before the Euro, it was quite common for places to accept multiple currencies in the one location, especially in border areas or smaller countries with lower floats. It's not such a big deal. Just about every international traveller works in two currencies by converting the 'away' currency into their 'home' currency in their head with each purchase. I have actually been offered the opportunity to pay with my home currency on visa POS machines while travelling. There are undoubtedly efficiencies to having a central currency, but when the central government is systematically destroying the unit of value, inefficiency of multiple currencies is a very small price to pay for being able to escape that. That's why Zimbabwe has the highest number of currencies on the list that was linked above [Edit: position is relative, the list that ianb linked]