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> Wrong. It's barbaric and primitive. Source? > Yes, it is. People make mistakes. People have infinite possibility to grow, change and contribute to society.

> Wrong. It's barbaric and primitive. Source? > Yes, it is. People make mistakes. People have infinite possibility to grow, change and contribute to society. Snuffing everything someone is out because of an arbitrary society rule that ultimately does less harm than murder is indefensible. Putting aside statistics on actual reform instead of fantastical infinite possibility, as I understand this policy mostly serves to deter foreigners from attempting the potentially very lucrative business of smuggling drugs into Singapore. Even if Singapore didn't take the "barbaric" approach of executing them, they would have to either host them as prisoners on their already very limited land, or go through the process of deporting them to their home country, where they might not even face any consequences and just try again. Why should they bear this burden for people who have no ties to Singapore and will never contribute anything to it?

JCattheATM 8mo ago
> Source? Do you know what an opinion is? > as I understand this policy mostly serves to deter foreigners from attempting the potentially very lucrative business of smuggling drugs into Singapore. So what? That's not a justification. > Why should they bear this burden for people who have no ties to Singapore and will never contribute anything to it? Singapore is perfectly able to control their borders better than most countries. It's not like the US where it's relatively easy to sneak in. 'They might come back' is a poor justification for murder.
- HighGoldstein 8mo ago
  >Do you know what an opinion is? Cool, what makes _your_ opinion better than mine, or that of the Singaporeans? >Singapore is perfectly able to control their borders better than most countries. It's not like the US where it's relatively easy to sneak in. Okay, why should they? Drug traffickers are perfectly capable of not attempting to smuggle drugs into Singapore.
  - JCattheATM 8mo ago
    > what makes _your_ opinion better than mine, or that of the Singaporeans? Because I believe it can be supported and be shown to be objectively correct. Not that I'm willing to put in the effort when it already took this much for you to realize I was stating an opinion though. > Okay, why should they? Drug traffickers are perfectly capable of not attempting to smuggle drugs into Singapore. If you think casual murder is fine because it's convenient, I don't think there's much for us to discuss anyway. We clearly have drastically different values. I'll just take solace in the fact that Singapore likely won't survive another 100 years.
    - lenkite 8mo ago
      > Because I believe it can be supported and be shown to be objectively correct. Out of curiosity, How can your argument "be supported and shown to be objectively correct" ? It seems the evidence is actually the other way around. After introduction of the death penalty in the 90s, the average net amount of opium trafficked to Singapore famously dropped by ~70%. I do not support the death penalty myself, but primarily for ethical and moral reasons to preserve our humanity - which is constantly under attack. But not "objective ones" since the evidence clearly supports the death penalty for "objective reasons". For these positions, objectivity should be left in the gutter.
      - JCattheATM 8mo ago
        > After introduction of the death penalty in the 90s, the average net amount of opium trafficked to Singapore famously dropped by ~70%. If we introduced the death penalty for minor shoplifting, minor shoplifting would probably drop by a huge percentage. Would that justify it? > But not "objective ones" since the evidence clearly supports the death penalty for "objective reasons". For these positions, objectivity should be left in the gutter. I disagree. When you evaluate all the pros and cons, I think the evidence is solidly against the death penalty.
        lenkite 8mo ago
        > If we introduced the death penalty for minor shoplifting, minor shoplifting would probably drop by a huge percentage. Would that justify it? Of-course it wouldn't - but you are precisely reinforcing my point. Because opponents can claim via evidence that the death penalty is effective for this, if you argue on the basis of "facts". Thus, objectivity should not be used as an argument for an ethical and moral human principle. Such principles stand by themselves to maintain the sanctity of the human soul - no justification needed.

JCattheATM 8mo ago

> Source? Do you know what an opinion is? > as I understand this policy mostly serves to deter foreigners from attempting the potentially very lucrative business of smuggling drugs into Singapore. So what? That's not a justification. > Why should they bear this burden for people who have no ties to Singapore and will never contribute anything to it? Singapore is perfectly able to control their borders better than most countries. It's not like the US where it's relatively easy to sneak in. 'They might come back' is a poor justification for murder.

HighGoldstein 8mo ago
>Do you know what an opinion is? Cool, what makes _your_ opinion better than mine, or that of the Singaporeans? >Singapore is perfectly able to control their borders better than most countries. It's not like the US where it's relatively easy to sneak in. Okay, why should they? Drug traffickers are perfectly capable of not attempting to smuggle drugs into Singapore.
- JCattheATM 8mo ago
  > what makes _your_ opinion better than mine, or that of the Singaporeans? Because I believe it can be supported and be shown to be objectively correct. Not that I'm willing to put in the effort when it already took this much for you to realize I was stating an opinion though. > Okay, why should they? Drug traffickers are perfectly capable of not attempting to smuggle drugs into Singapore. If you think casual murder is fine because it's convenient, I don't think there's much for us to discuss anyway. We clearly have drastically different values. I'll just take solace in the fact that Singapore likely won't survive another 100 years.
  - lenkite 8mo ago
    > Because I believe it can be supported and be shown to be objectively correct. Out of curiosity, How can your argument "be supported and shown to be objectively correct" ? It seems the evidence is actually the other way around. After introduction of the death penalty in the 90s, the average net amount of opium trafficked to Singapore famously dropped by ~70%. I do not support the death penalty myself, but primarily for ethical and moral reasons to preserve our humanity - which is constantly under attack. But not "objective ones" since the evidence clearly supports the death penalty for "objective reasons". For these positions, objectivity should be left in the gutter.
    - JCattheATM 8mo ago
      > After introduction of the death penalty in the 90s, the average net amount of opium trafficked to Singapore famously dropped by ~70%. If we introduced the death penalty for minor shoplifting, minor shoplifting would probably drop by a huge percentage. Would that justify it? > But not "objective ones" since the evidence clearly supports the death penalty for "objective reasons". For these positions, objectivity should be left in the gutter. I disagree. When you evaluate all the pros and cons, I think the evidence is solidly against the death penalty.
      - lenkite 8mo ago
        > If we introduced the death penalty for minor shoplifting, minor shoplifting would probably drop by a huge percentage. Would that justify it? Of-course it wouldn't - but you are precisely reinforcing my point. Because opponents can claim via evidence that the death penalty is effective for this, if you argue on the basis of "facts". Thus, objectivity should not be used as an argument for an ethical and moral human principle. Such principles stand by themselves to maintain the sanctity of the human soul - no justification needed.