3 ms·

> It's a common sign of snake oil when something claims to be the cure for a ton of completely unrelated conditions. Except this is coming from the opposite di

> It's a common sign of snake oil when something claims to be the cure for a ton of completely unrelated conditions. Except this is coming from the opposite direction. The drug is being noticed to seemingly cure unrelated conditions. The vendor is not selling it as that.

meatmanek 8mo ago
There's always the chance that the manufacturers are behind some of these stories -- funding studies to find new markets, astroturfing success stories, etc.
autoexec 8mo ago
Although I can't say it's what happened in this case, I suspect that the drug companies have a hand in some of the research showing the unexpected benefits of their product. While they do have to be careful about what they claim the drug does in conventional advertising, studies suggesting various benefits for this drug get a lot of attention in the media.
- cthalupa 8mo ago
  These studies have conflict of interest, funding, etc. disclosures. If it was Lilly and Novo pushing these, they'd either show up in those disclosures or you're suggesting a massive conspiracy to undermine the medical regulatory system to sell more drugs that they already have struggled to meet demand for for extended periods of time. Why would they kill a golden goose that shows no signs of stopping it's egg laying?
  - autoexec 8mo ago
    It's not so much a massive conspiracy as it is the known reality of how these companies operate. There is very little risk as oversight and real accountability are basically non-existent Novo Nordisk has even demonstrated their willingness to ignore disclosure requirements (https://www.pslhub.org/blogs/entry/7950-wegovy-maker-novo-nordisk-rebuked-by-watchdog-over-failure-to-disclose-payments-to-uk-health-groups/ https://www.pslhub.org/blogs/entry/7950-wegovy-maker-novo-no...) multiple times even (https://news.sky.com/story/ozempic-maker-novo-nordisk-failed-to-disclose-more-payments-made-to-healthcare-groups-watchdog-13297669 https://news.sky.com/story/ozempic-maker-novo-nordisk-failed...) but the problem is everywhere including research Here are just some examples: > Cross-sectional studies across a heterogeneous set of conditions suggest that between 29 and 69 % of published clinical trial reports include disclosures of conflicts of interest. Studies measuring undisclosed conflicts of interest suggest that between 43 and 69 % of study reports and other articles fail to include disclosures of conflicts of interest (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4854425/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4854425/) > chief medical officer at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York, failed to disclose relevant industry ties in dozens of research articles since 2013. (https://ashpublications.org/ashclinicalnews/news/4092/Leading-Cancer-Researcher-Failed-to-Disclose https://ashpublications.org/ashclinicalnews/news/4092/Leadin...) > one in four Australian authors in 120 trials had at least one undeclared conflict, with an average value of undisclosed payment at almost AU $9000. (https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2022/03/14/many-australian-medical-researchers-not-declaring-conflicts-of-i.html https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2022/03/14/many-...)
    - lysace 8mo ago
      I noticed that just in the past two hours you have provided detailed skepticism/commentary in these topics: - Semaglutide - App addiction for kids - Fake news via tiktok I guess what I'm asking is: are you really going deep, or just blasting us with links?
      - autoexec 8mo ago
        I only provided examples in case there was any doubt that failure to disclose ties to the pharmaceutical industry was a known and large scale problem after the suggestion that it was some kind of conspiracy theory. Skepticism in the case of these drug companies is warranted. As for the variety of the things I've commented on, I can only blame procrastination and the contents of the front page. I got a lot more work done monday afternoon, I promise.
        throaway1998 8mo ago
        There's no case to be made for calling these drugs snake oil. They're well-proven to have a host of benefits beyond their specified use. Their promotion by the makers of the drug doesn't change that.
    - cthalupa 8mo ago
      Thanks. I'll admit I'm pretty surprised - my understanding is this sort of thing usually is a much bigger deal when it comes to fucking with things that impact FDA decisions, etc., so them publicly flouting it is pretty crazy to me.

meatmanek 8mo ago

There's always the chance that the manufacturers are behind some of these stories -- funding studies to find new markets, astroturfing success stories, etc.

autoexec 8mo ago

Although I can't say it's what happened in this case, I suspect that the drug companies have a hand in some of the research showing the unexpected benefits of their product. While they do have to be careful about what they claim the drug does in conventional advertising, studies suggesting various benefits for this drug get a lot of attention in the media.

cthalupa 8mo ago
These studies have conflict of interest, funding, etc. disclosures. If it was Lilly and Novo pushing these, they'd either show up in those disclosures or you're suggesting a massive conspiracy to undermine the medical regulatory system to sell more drugs that they already have struggled to meet demand for for extended periods of time. Why would they kill a golden goose that shows no signs of stopping it's egg laying?
- autoexec 8mo ago
  It's not so much a massive conspiracy as it is the known reality of how these companies operate. There is very little risk as oversight and real accountability are basically non-existent Novo Nordisk has even demonstrated their willingness to ignore disclosure requirements (https://www.pslhub.org/blogs/entry/7950-wegovy-maker-novo-nordisk-rebuked-by-watchdog-over-failure-to-disclose-payments-to-uk-health-groups/ https://www.pslhub.org/blogs/entry/7950-wegovy-maker-novo-no...) multiple times even (https://news.sky.com/story/ozempic-maker-novo-nordisk-failed-to-disclose-more-payments-made-to-healthcare-groups-watchdog-13297669 https://news.sky.com/story/ozempic-maker-novo-nordisk-failed...) but the problem is everywhere including research Here are just some examples: > Cross-sectional studies across a heterogeneous set of conditions suggest that between 29 and 69 % of published clinical trial reports include disclosures of conflicts of interest. Studies measuring undisclosed conflicts of interest suggest that between 43 and 69 % of study reports and other articles fail to include disclosures of conflicts of interest (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4854425/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4854425/) > chief medical officer at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York, failed to disclose relevant industry ties in dozens of research articles since 2013. (https://ashpublications.org/ashclinicalnews/news/4092/Leading-Cancer-Researcher-Failed-to-Disclose https://ashpublications.org/ashclinicalnews/news/4092/Leadin...) > one in four Australian authors in 120 trials had at least one undeclared conflict, with an average value of undisclosed payment at almost AU $9000. (https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2022/03/14/many-australian-medical-researchers-not-declaring-conflicts-of-i.html https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2022/03/14/many-...)
  - lysace 8mo ago
    I noticed that just in the past two hours you have provided detailed skepticism/commentary in these topics: - Semaglutide - App addiction for kids - Fake news via tiktok I guess what I'm asking is: are you really going deep, or just blasting us with links?
    - autoexec 8mo ago
      I only provided examples in case there was any doubt that failure to disclose ties to the pharmaceutical industry was a known and large scale problem after the suggestion that it was some kind of conspiracy theory. Skepticism in the case of these drug companies is warranted. As for the variety of the things I've commented on, I can only blame procrastination and the contents of the front page. I got a lot more work done monday afternoon, I promise.
      - throaway1998 8mo ago
        There's no case to be made for calling these drugs snake oil. They're well-proven to have a host of benefits beyond their specified use. Their promotion by the makers of the drug doesn't change that.
  - cthalupa 8mo ago
    Thanks. I'll admit I'm pretty surprised - my understanding is this sort of thing usually is a much bigger deal when it comes to fucking with things that impact FDA decisions, etc., so them publicly flouting it is pretty crazy to me.