4 ms·

> Seems like a wonder drug to me. The benefits just keep piling up. That's a massive red flag. It's a common sign of snake oil when something claims to be the

> Seems like a wonder drug to me. The benefits just keep piling up. That's a massive red flag. It's a common sign of snake oil when something claims to be the cure for a ton of completely unrelated conditions. While I do think these drugs are actually effective at some things, I also wonder how much they're being overprescribed already. It seems like there's a massive push to try to get insurance to cover the drug for just about anything and everything. I've never seen a drug advertised as aggressively either. The drug is helping people and improving lives and that's a good thing, but I'm not sure how much of the attention on this drug is just a massive scheme by phrama companies to get sales and how careful doctors and patients are being.

MattGaiser 8mo ago
> It's a common sign of snake oil when something claims to be the cure for a ton of completely unrelated conditions. Except this is coming from the opposite direction. The drug is being noticed to seemingly cure unrelated conditions. The vendor is not selling it as that.
- meatmanek 8mo ago
  There's always the chance that the manufacturers are behind some of these stories -- funding studies to find new markets, astroturfing success stories, etc.
- autoexec 8mo ago
  Although I can't say it's what happened in this case, I suspect that the drug companies have a hand in some of the research showing the unexpected benefits of their product. While they do have to be careful about what they claim the drug does in conventional advertising, studies suggesting various benefits for this drug get a lot of attention in the media.
  - cthalupa 8mo ago
    These studies have conflict of interest, funding, etc. disclosures. If it was Lilly and Novo pushing these, they'd either show up in those disclosures or you're suggesting a massive conspiracy to undermine the medical regulatory system to sell more drugs that they already have struggled to meet demand for for extended periods of time. Why would they kill a golden goose that shows no signs of stopping it's egg laying?
    - autoexec 8mo ago
      It's not so much a massive conspiracy as it is the known reality of how these companies operate. There is very little risk as oversight and real accountability are basically non-existent Novo Nordisk has even demonstrated their willingness to ignore disclosure requirements (https://www.pslhub.org/blogs/entry/7950-wegovy-maker-novo-nordisk-rebuked-by-watchdog-over-failure-to-disclose-payments-to-uk-health-groups/ https://www.pslhub.org/blogs/entry/7950-wegovy-maker-novo-no...) multiple times even (https://news.sky.com/story/ozempic-maker-novo-nordisk-failed-to-disclose-more-payments-made-to-healthcare-groups-watchdog-13297669 https://news.sky.com/story/ozempic-maker-novo-nordisk-failed...) but the problem is everywhere including research Here are just some examples: > Cross-sectional studies across a heterogeneous set of conditions suggest that between 29 and 69 % of published clinical trial reports include disclosures of conflicts of interest. Studies measuring undisclosed conflicts of interest suggest that between 43 and 69 % of study reports and other articles fail to include disclosures of conflicts of interest (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4854425/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4854425/) > chief medical officer at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York, failed to disclose relevant industry ties in dozens of research articles since 2013. (https://ashpublications.org/ashclinicalnews/news/4092/Leading-Cancer-Researcher-Failed-to-Disclose https://ashpublications.org/ashclinicalnews/news/4092/Leadin...) > one in four Australian authors in 120 trials had at least one undeclared conflict, with an average value of undisclosed payment at almost AU $9000. (https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2022/03/14/many-australian-medical-researchers-not-declaring-conflicts-of-i.html https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2022/03/14/many-...)
      - lysace 8mo ago
        I noticed that just in the past two hours you have provided detailed skepticism/commentary in these topics: - Semaglutide - App addiction for kids - Fake news via tiktok I guess what I'm asking is: are you really going deep, or just blasting us with links?
inglor_cz 8mo ago
"unrelated" Are they, or is it just our incomplete understanding? We still keep finding new and new surprising relationships in our bodies. Caries bacteria in colorectal cancer. Schizophrenia cured by bone marrow transplant. ALS cases induced by consumption of mushrooms (false morels). I wouldn't be surprised if, say, reduction of systemic inflammation caused all sorts of unexpected effects body-wide.

MattGaiser 8mo ago

> It's a common sign of snake oil when something claims to be the cure for a ton of completely unrelated conditions. Except this is coming from the opposite direction. The drug is being noticed to seemingly cure unrelated conditions. The vendor is not selling it as that.

meatmanek 8mo ago
There's always the chance that the manufacturers are behind some of these stories -- funding studies to find new markets, astroturfing success stories, etc.
autoexec 8mo ago
Although I can't say it's what happened in this case, I suspect that the drug companies have a hand in some of the research showing the unexpected benefits of their product. While they do have to be careful about what they claim the drug does in conventional advertising, studies suggesting various benefits for this drug get a lot of attention in the media.
- cthalupa 8mo ago
  These studies have conflict of interest, funding, etc. disclosures. If it was Lilly and Novo pushing these, they'd either show up in those disclosures or you're suggesting a massive conspiracy to undermine the medical regulatory system to sell more drugs that they already have struggled to meet demand for for extended periods of time. Why would they kill a golden goose that shows no signs of stopping it's egg laying?
  - autoexec 8mo ago
    It's not so much a massive conspiracy as it is the known reality of how these companies operate. There is very little risk as oversight and real accountability are basically non-existent Novo Nordisk has even demonstrated their willingness to ignore disclosure requirements (https://www.pslhub.org/blogs/entry/7950-wegovy-maker-novo-nordisk-rebuked-by-watchdog-over-failure-to-disclose-payments-to-uk-health-groups/ https://www.pslhub.org/blogs/entry/7950-wegovy-maker-novo-no...) multiple times even (https://news.sky.com/story/ozempic-maker-novo-nordisk-failed-to-disclose-more-payments-made-to-healthcare-groups-watchdog-13297669 https://news.sky.com/story/ozempic-maker-novo-nordisk-failed...) but the problem is everywhere including research Here are just some examples: > Cross-sectional studies across a heterogeneous set of conditions suggest that between 29 and 69 % of published clinical trial reports include disclosures of conflicts of interest. Studies measuring undisclosed conflicts of interest suggest that between 43 and 69 % of study reports and other articles fail to include disclosures of conflicts of interest (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4854425/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4854425/) > chief medical officer at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York, failed to disclose relevant industry ties in dozens of research articles since 2013. (https://ashpublications.org/ashclinicalnews/news/4092/Leading-Cancer-Researcher-Failed-to-Disclose https://ashpublications.org/ashclinicalnews/news/4092/Leadin...) > one in four Australian authors in 120 trials had at least one undeclared conflict, with an average value of undisclosed payment at almost AU $9000. (https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2022/03/14/many-australian-medical-researchers-not-declaring-conflicts-of-i.html https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2022/03/14/many-...)
    - lysace 8mo ago
      I noticed that just in the past two hours you have provided detailed skepticism/commentary in these topics: - Semaglutide - App addiction for kids - Fake news via tiktok I guess what I'm asking is: are you really going deep, or just blasting us with links?

inglor_cz 8mo ago

"unrelated" Are they, or is it just our incomplete understanding? We still keep finding new and new surprising relationships in our bodies. Caries bacteria in colorectal cancer. Schizophrenia cured by bone marrow transplant. ALS cases induced by consumption of mushrooms (false morels). I wouldn't be surprised if, say, reduction of systemic inflammation caused all sorts of unexpected effects body-wide.