8 ms·

I own two SUVs because they are useful. Can't we be critical of ourselves and some of the consequences of our own choices?

bpt3 8mo ago
Yes, we can be critical of ourselves. I guess your description of SUV-drivers looking at pedestrians with disdain and buying a car with room for more passengers to intentionally exclude potential passengers is an accurate reflection of your own opinion? As I said, I don't believe those are very widely held and they certainly don't reflect my thoughts, so my criticisms would be quite different.
- 5upplied_demand 8mo ago
  The majority of the SUVs I see driving have exactly 1 person in them. It's ok to admit that. We can also look at the facts, which do imply a more recent disregard (if not disdain) for pedestrians: > Drivers hit and killed 3,304 people walking in the United States in the first half of 2024, down 2.6% from the year before but a staggering 48% above a decade ago, according to a new analysis from GHSA. [0] [0] https://www.ghsa.org/news/early-2024-us-pedestrian-fatalities-48-decade-ago https://www.ghsa.org/news/early-2024-us-pedestrian-fatalitie...
  - bpt3 8mo ago
    > The majority of the SUVs I see driving have exactly 1 person in them. It's ok to admit that. I don't need to "admit" that, because I agree it's true. In your rush to prove a point, you completely missed mine, which was: At least 99% of families buying SUVs to transport kids around instead of a car or minivan (which is why single occupant use didn't come up, as it wasn't really relevant) aren't intentionally firing a shot in an ideological war, they're just picking a car that works for them, they can afford, and they like. Obviously a lot of that is subjective and has been shaped by regulation, marketing, and an interest in conformity with peers, but what will definitely not change anyone's mind is endless hostility over what is a generally benign decision.
    - 5upplied_demand 8mo ago
      You seem to have completely dismissed the factual data I provided that vehicle deaths of pedestrians have increased 48% in the past 10 years. This certainly implies that something has changed in how Americans drive and interact with pedestrians. It also perfectly correlates with a time period where SUVs went from 30% to 60% of vehicles on the road. There is research on how car cost (with SUVs being the most expensive vehicle type) impacts driver yielding behavior [0]. There is also research on how being in a car changes your perspective of pedestrians and others not in the car [1][2][3]. [0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8758047/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8758047/ [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1559-1816.2001.tb00204.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1559-1816.... [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233520099_Acoustic_Cocooning_How_the_Car_became_a_Place_to_Unwind https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233520099_Acoustic_... [3] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227874062_Territorial_Markings_as_a_Predictor_of_Driver_Aggression_and_Road_Rage1 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227874062_Territori...
      - bpt3 8mo ago
        You. Do. Not. Get. It. Best of luck to you.
        5upplied_demand 8mo ago
        Yea, it sure seems like we are talking about different things. I've re-read the exchange and can't find the disconnect or where the hostility came from. Maybe you thought I was another poster from a different exchange? You clearly stated your opinion that "SUV-drivers looking at pedestrians with disdain" isn't widely held. I then provided actual data and studies that disagrees with that opinion. I'm not sure why that was so upsetting.
        bpt3 8mo ago
        Thanks for continuing to prove my point. The data you provided isn't upsetting, other than it's sad that people are being needlessly killed. Interacting with insufferable transit "enthusiasts" is exhausting though, especially when they jump into discussions without reading the entire thread (as you did here apparently). You and your peers seem incapable of doing anything other than attacking, insulting, and looking down upon anyone who isn't as "enlightened" as you, making you zealots, which is why I want absolutely nothing to do with any of you even if I agree with many of your positions. If you all ever figure out that the first step to improving a situation isn't "try to make everyone who disagrees with me feel bad about themselves via hostility" let me know. I won't be holding my breath.

bpt3 8mo ago

Yes, we can be critical of ourselves. I guess your description of SUV-drivers looking at pedestrians with disdain and buying a car with room for more passengers to intentionally exclude potential passengers is an accurate reflection of your own opinion? As I said, I don't believe those are very widely held and they certainly don't reflect my thoughts, so my criticisms would be quite different.

5upplied_demand 8mo ago
The majority of the SUVs I see driving have exactly 1 person in them. It's ok to admit that. We can also look at the facts, which do imply a more recent disregard (if not disdain) for pedestrians: > Drivers hit and killed 3,304 people walking in the United States in the first half of 2024, down 2.6% from the year before but a staggering 48% above a decade ago, according to a new analysis from GHSA. [0] [0] https://www.ghsa.org/news/early-2024-us-pedestrian-fatalities-48-decade-ago https://www.ghsa.org/news/early-2024-us-pedestrian-fatalitie...
- bpt3 8mo ago
  > The majority of the SUVs I see driving have exactly 1 person in them. It's ok to admit that. I don't need to "admit" that, because I agree it's true. In your rush to prove a point, you completely missed mine, which was: At least 99% of families buying SUVs to transport kids around instead of a car or minivan (which is why single occupant use didn't come up, as it wasn't really relevant) aren't intentionally firing a shot in an ideological war, they're just picking a car that works for them, they can afford, and they like. Obviously a lot of that is subjective and has been shaped by regulation, marketing, and an interest in conformity with peers, but what will definitely not change anyone's mind is endless hostility over what is a generally benign decision.
  - 5upplied_demand 8mo ago
    You seem to have completely dismissed the factual data I provided that vehicle deaths of pedestrians have increased 48% in the past 10 years. This certainly implies that something has changed in how Americans drive and interact with pedestrians. It also perfectly correlates with a time period where SUVs went from 30% to 60% of vehicles on the road. There is research on how car cost (with SUVs being the most expensive vehicle type) impacts driver yielding behavior [0]. There is also research on how being in a car changes your perspective of pedestrians and others not in the car [1][2][3]. [0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8758047/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8758047/ [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1559-1816.2001.tb00204.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1559-1816.... [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233520099_Acoustic_Cocooning_How_the_Car_became_a_Place_to_Unwind https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233520099_Acoustic_... [3] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227874062_Territorial_Markings_as_a_Predictor_of_Driver_Aggression_and_Road_Rage1 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227874062_Territori...
    - bpt3 8mo ago
      You. Do. Not. Get. It. Best of luck to you.
      - 5upplied_demand 8mo ago
        Yea, it sure seems like we are talking about different things. I've re-read the exchange and can't find the disconnect or where the hostility came from. Maybe you thought I was another poster from a different exchange? You clearly stated your opinion that "SUV-drivers looking at pedestrians with disdain" isn't widely held. I then provided actual data and studies that disagrees with that opinion. I'm not sure why that was so upsetting.
        bpt3 8mo ago
        Thanks for continuing to prove my point. The data you provided isn't upsetting, other than it's sad that people are being needlessly killed. Interacting with insufferable transit "enthusiasts" is exhausting though, especially when they jump into discussions without reading the entire thread (as you did here apparently). You and your peers seem incapable of doing anything other than attacking, insulting, and looking down upon anyone who isn't as "enlightened" as you, making you zealots, which is why I want absolutely nothing to do with any of you even if I agree with many of your positions. If you all ever figure out that the first step to improving a situation isn't "try to make everyone who disagrees with me feel bad about themselves via hostility" let me know. I won't be holding my breath.