4 ms·

Bizarre take. Notice how that WebGPU is an AndroidX library? That means WebGPU API support is built into apps via that library and runs on top of the system's V

Bizarre take. Notice how that WebGPU is an AndroidX library? That means WebGPU API support is built into apps via that library and runs on top of the system's Vulkan or OpenGL ES API. Do you work for Google or an Android OEM? If not, you have no basis to make the claim that Android will cease updating Vulkan API support.

pjmlp 9mo ago
I did not do such claim. WebGPU on Android runs on top of Vulkan. If you knew about 3D programming on Android, you would know that there are ongoing efforts to have only Vulkan, with OpenGL ES on top. However Java and Kotlin devs refuse to bother with the NDK for Vulkan, and keep reaching for OpenGL ES instead. Please refer to Google talks on Vulkanised conferences.
- flohofwoe 9mo ago
  > ...efforts to have only Vulkan, with OpenGL ES on top... Ok this made me laugh given that Vulkan support on Android is so bad that WebGPU needs a fallback mode to GLES ;) https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/4266 https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/4266
  - pjmlp 9mo ago
    Agreed, which is Google's motivation for doing that. The argument being that if Android only does Vulkan, that OEMs will be forced to care about their drivers. There are talks done by Google on this, either Vulkanised, Google IO, or GDC, can't remember now the exact one.
- torginus 9mo ago
  Is it possible to support OpenGL on top of Vulkan well? It has been pointed out that Vulkan requires you to completely freeze and compile a graphics pipeline before using it, while OpenGL's state machine is more flexible, and the underlying hardware is somewhat more amenable to these state transitions at runtime, than the Vulkan API would suggest. Don't these compatibility layers run into issues with constant pipeline recompilation related performance issues, when emulating OpenGL?
  - pjmlp 9mo ago
    It is no different from running DirectX on Vulkan, DirectX or Vulkan on Metal. It works, kind of.
  - Hendrikto 9mo ago
    > Vulkan requires you to completely freeze and compile a graphics pipeline before using it It used to be like that but it is no longer true.
- mirsadm 9mo ago
  Vulkan is awful to work with and the drivers are buggy. Google's own phones are the worst for it. I have an app with a compute only vulkan pipeline and on the Google Pixel 10 the whole screen becomes corrupted with some fairly basic shaders.

pjmlp 9mo ago

I did not do such claim. WebGPU on Android runs on top of Vulkan. If you knew about 3D programming on Android, you would know that there are ongoing efforts to have only Vulkan, with OpenGL ES on top. However Java and Kotlin devs refuse to bother with the NDK for Vulkan, and keep reaching for OpenGL ES instead. Please refer to Google talks on Vulkanised conferences.

flohofwoe 9mo ago
> ...efforts to have only Vulkan, with OpenGL ES on top... Ok this made me laugh given that Vulkan support on Android is so bad that WebGPU needs a fallback mode to GLES ;) https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/4266 https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/4266
- pjmlp 9mo ago
  Agreed, which is Google's motivation for doing that. The argument being that if Android only does Vulkan, that OEMs will be forced to care about their drivers. There are talks done by Google on this, either Vulkanised, Google IO, or GDC, can't remember now the exact one.
torginus 9mo ago
Is it possible to support OpenGL on top of Vulkan well? It has been pointed out that Vulkan requires you to completely freeze and compile a graphics pipeline before using it, while OpenGL's state machine is more flexible, and the underlying hardware is somewhat more amenable to these state transitions at runtime, than the Vulkan API would suggest. Don't these compatibility layers run into issues with constant pipeline recompilation related performance issues, when emulating OpenGL?
- pjmlp 9mo ago
  It is no different from running DirectX on Vulkan, DirectX or Vulkan on Metal. It works, kind of.
- Hendrikto 9mo ago
  > Vulkan requires you to completely freeze and compile a graphics pipeline before using it It used to be like that but it is no longer true.
mirsadm 9mo ago
Vulkan is awful to work with and the drivers are buggy. Google's own phones are the worst for it. I have an app with a compute only vulkan pipeline and on the Google Pixel 10 the whole screen becomes corrupted with some fairly basic shaders.