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> Are you saying that Israelis are more likely to have kids mainly because Israeli society is more tolerant of kids Yes. They are much more tolerant about hav

> Are you saying that Israelis are more likely to have kids mainly because Israeli society is more tolerant of kids Yes. They are much more tolerant about having kids and making sure to give space to people planning to have kids. > In my model, people choose to have kids because it's an important life goal for them, and this decision is not very much affected by whether other people might give them a stink eye if their kids run around in a mall. The more likely you and your peers are to have kids, the more likely you are to live in a society which will accommodate you. --- Heck, Germany gives significantly more monetary and subsidized childcare benefits than Israel (which gives almost nothing), and Israel remains significantly more expensive than much of Germany, yet secular Israelis continues to sustain a much higher fertility rate than similar Germans. It is hard to describe how kid unfriendly Western society has become.

s1artibartfast 9mo ago
I think it is more than just tolerance and stink eyes. Some cultures actively celebrate children and families. They center them in social life in an inclusive way. This covers inclusion in social events, institutions, and civic design. Kids are not only FUN, but interesting, challenging, and rewarding. I would be very interested in a breakdown of how the American perception changed over time and what the drivers were.
- lotsofpulp 9mo ago
  Since total fertility rates have the same trend all around the world, why restrict the breakdown to Americans? Seems kind of obvious that doing adult things with freedom during one’s 20s and 30s is deemed more fun than raising children, which necessarily includes foregoing many or all of the adult things due to lack of funds and time.
  - s1artibartfast 9mo ago
    > Seems kind of obvious that doing adult things with freedom during one’s 20s and 30s is deemed more fun than raising children This is exactly what I am talking about. Is the obviousness of this statement constant across time? Would someone in the 1960 or 1980 have found it equally obvious? Alternatively, is it the emphasis on prioritizing fun that changed? Alternatively, has both the perception and reality of fun given up changed? Im mostly interested in breakdown in America because I am an American. Some countries match, some dont. If the underlying drivers are common, I would still find them the most relatable and interesting in the American context.

s1artibartfast 9mo ago

I think it is more than just tolerance and stink eyes. Some cultures actively celebrate children and families. They center them in social life in an inclusive way. This covers inclusion in social events, institutions, and civic design. Kids are not only FUN, but interesting, challenging, and rewarding. I would be very interested in a breakdown of how the American perception changed over time and what the drivers were.

lotsofpulp 9mo ago
Since total fertility rates have the same trend all around the world, why restrict the breakdown to Americans? Seems kind of obvious that doing adult things with freedom during one’s 20s and 30s is deemed more fun than raising children, which necessarily includes foregoing many or all of the adult things due to lack of funds and time.
- s1artibartfast 9mo ago
  > Seems kind of obvious that doing adult things with freedom during one’s 20s and 30s is deemed more fun than raising children This is exactly what I am talking about. Is the obviousness of this statement constant across time? Would someone in the 1960 or 1980 have found it equally obvious? Alternatively, is it the emphasis on prioritizing fun that changed? Alternatively, has both the perception and reality of fun given up changed? Im mostly interested in breakdown in America because I am an American. Some countries match, some dont. If the underlying drivers are common, I would still find them the most relatable and interesting in the American context.