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The dimension of this issue that never gets air time is that we've made having kids almost completely intentional. The richer a country becomes, the more intent

The dimension of this issue that never gets air time is that we've made having kids almost completely intentional. The richer a country becomes, the more intentional having kids becomes. The dynamic we see with rich countries is that as having kids becomes more intentional, there's also the increase in reasons why people would choose to delay or forego having kids.

dan_mctree 8mo ago
Yes, this absolutely appears to be the main reason. Both in practical terms through birth control, but also through cultural terms in that it's now seen as a choice rather than as an obvious thing you do. To change this course, we probably need to change the culture first so that a birth control ban will be supported. That's currently not looking likely, so population collapse it is
- waynesonfire 8mo ago
  > birth control ban will be supported Wtf... totally the wrong tool to change the calculus of intentionally having children.
- munificent 8mo ago
  > To change this course, we probably need to change the culture first so that a birth control ban will be supported. This is the most casually psychotic thing I've read on HN. You're advocating forcing women to bear children they don't want and taking away control over their own body.
  - lotsofpulp 8mo ago
    US voters chose to put people with that view in charge of the federal US government. 1990s and 2000s me would have never believed it.
  - 4gotunameagain 8mo ago
    We need to strike the right balance between personal benefit/freedom and societal benefit. Clearly we are way too on the individualistic side of the pendulum now.
    - senordevnyc 8mo ago
      That's far from clear.
    - tkfoss 8mo ago
      Why don't you have a few extra children for societal benefit, being aware of the importance thereof?
      - 4gotunameagain 8mo ago
        Oh I'm on it don't you worry son
        wiseowise 8mo ago
        Proofs or didn't happen.
- rune-dev 8mo ago
  How is forcing people to have children they don’t want a good outcome? How about we set up society in such a way that choosing to have children is a more appealing option.
shipman05 8mo ago
I think you're spot on. And all of the various theories and analysis are pretty laughable if one has any sort of historical context. - "People don't have kids because they're afraid of climate change" - Wildly overestimates the number of people who figure climate change into their life plans, and it discounts the numerous catastrophes people have feared and experience in the past while continuing to have high birth rates. - "People don't have kids because everything is too expensive" - My father-in-law has 11 siblings and they grew up in a 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom home. His story is not unique. "having kids is almost completely intentional"....in countries where this is the case due to birth control, abortion, feminism (and other cultural shifts), the birth rate plummets. Delving into the reasons why people opt to have fewer or no children when given the choice consistently across races, religions, cultural background, etc would be a book-length endeavor, but to me it really is that simple. There are numerous reasons someone wouldn't want to have more children, and they tend to find one of them when given the choice.

dan_mctree 8mo ago

Yes, this absolutely appears to be the main reason. Both in practical terms through birth control, but also through cultural terms in that it's now seen as a choice rather than as an obvious thing you do. To change this course, we probably need to change the culture first so that a birth control ban will be supported. That's currently not looking likely, so population collapse it is

waynesonfire 8mo ago
> birth control ban will be supported Wtf... totally the wrong tool to change the calculus of intentionally having children.
munificent 8mo ago
> To change this course, we probably need to change the culture first so that a birth control ban will be supported. This is the most casually psychotic thing I've read on HN. You're advocating forcing women to bear children they don't want and taking away control over their own body.
- lotsofpulp 8mo ago
  US voters chose to put people with that view in charge of the federal US government. 1990s and 2000s me would have never believed it.
- 4gotunameagain 8mo ago
  We need to strike the right balance between personal benefit/freedom and societal benefit. Clearly we are way too on the individualistic side of the pendulum now.
  - senordevnyc 8mo ago
    That's far from clear.
  - tkfoss 8mo ago
    Why don't you have a few extra children for societal benefit, being aware of the importance thereof?
    - 4gotunameagain 8mo ago
      Oh I'm on it don't you worry son
      - wiseowise 8mo ago
        Proofs or didn't happen.
rune-dev 8mo ago
How is forcing people to have children they don’t want a good outcome? How about we set up society in such a way that choosing to have children is a more appealing option.

shipman05 8mo ago

I think you're spot on. And all of the various theories and analysis are pretty laughable if one has any sort of historical context. - "People don't have kids because they're afraid of climate change" - Wildly overestimates the number of people who figure climate change into their life plans, and it discounts the numerous catastrophes people have feared and experience in the past while continuing to have high birth rates. - "People don't have kids because everything is too expensive" - My father-in-law has 11 siblings and they grew up in a 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom home. His story is not unique. "having kids is almost completely intentional"....in countries where this is the case due to birth control, abortion, feminism (and other cultural shifts), the birth rate plummets. Delving into the reasons why people opt to have fewer or no children when given the choice consistently across races, religions, cultural background, etc would be a book-length endeavor, but to me it really is that simple. There are numerous reasons someone wouldn't want to have more children, and they tend to find one of them when given the choice.