4 ms·

I certainly don’t agree with the things the administration is doing, but this seems like just hysteria. You are putting off your family growth plans because the

I certainly don’t agree with the things the administration is doing, but this seems like just hysteria. You are putting off your family growth plans because they might deport a theoretical future undocumented nanny? It is strange to me how generalized partisan fear has become.

matthewkayin 8mo ago
Don't be ridiculous, talking about "partisan fear". They have taken away documented, American citizens without due process. When armed men can take you out of your home or your car and whisk you away without a judicial warrant and without due process, it is very reasonable to be afraid.
- a_better_world 8mo ago
  or just shoot you while you are in your car.
- mattmaroon 8mo ago
  It’s really not. Define taken away. They’ve absolutely detained some citizens, then let them go. And again, not defending what they are doing, they are awful,but you are probably more likely to be hit by lightning than you are to have any of your family planning go wrong because of them if you are a full citizen. (If you are undocumented here right now, yeah, totally.) Hysterical people think they are being rational and stuff like this is exactly what they say.
  - bigyabai 8mo ago
    > you are probably more likely to be hit by lightning I get that you're trying to rationalize this scenario, but this line is completely false. If there was a nation-wide wave of aviation terrorism, it would not be appropriate to say that you're "more likely to be hit by lightning" than risk your life in a plane. The situation has changed, and they're not being hysterical for observing the trends and adjusting accordingly. Lightning has a relatively static chance of hitting you. The likelihood of feds accidentally executing you in your hometown is on the rise, and we don't know when it will stop climbing.
    - kadabra9 8mo ago
      [flagged]
    - handedness 8mo ago
      > Lightning has a relatively static chance of hitting you. That was fun.
  - prh8 8mo ago
    Their own data reports that they are holding tens of thousands of citizens who have committed no crimes. They have murdered people in broad daylight and allowing many more to suffer and even die in their facilities. People are not being hysterical, and the people who are downplaying or ignoring this are showing that they are in fact evil.
    - Izikiel43 8mo ago
      > Their own data reports that they are holding tens of thousands of citizens who have committed no crimes. A source would be nice
    - kadabra9 8mo ago
      Tens of thousands of "citizens" or "residents"? There's an important distinction here.
      - thunderfork 8mo ago
        First they came for the "residents", and I said nothing, because there were important distinctions to be made...
        kadabra9 8mo ago
        So in other words your claim that they are holding tens of thousands of "citizens" is fabricated. cool, thanks for clearing that up.
        thunderfork 8mo ago
        I'm not the person you think you're replying to. However, since you're here: etymological arguments are really not the win you should be chasing.
      - prh8 8mo ago
        Citizens. US citizens
  - samus 8mo ago
    Do you really think you have a holographic sign floating above you that tells them you are a citizen? How are you sure you are above suspicion to be an undocumented immigrant? Could you prove you aren't if some goons decided to pick you off the street right now or next time you go for a walk? All this is about expanding the reach and normalizing abuse of the power of law enforcement, just like back then after 9/11. It's like Germany in the 1930s again when Jews were required to wear a yellow star on their clothes, but the other way round.
  - BeetleB 8mo ago
    > Define taken away. You already did it: > They’ve absolutely detained some citizens, then let them go. That is taken away. Someone in my network - a US citizen - was detained, taken to a city 3 hours away, and held for 10 days before being released. Was quite a while before her family knew where she was. If you're an American who is visibly Hispanic, it's not at all hysterical. If you're in one of those cities, you do have to worry whether you'll return home when you leave your house.
a_better_world 8mo ago
I guess you don't live in Minneapolis, or another targeted metro area. It is hard to imagine what it is like to live in a city where 3000 masked and poorly trained people cos-playing special forces are specifically tasked with arresting as many people as they can and told that they have full immunity. you haven't seen the effect on schools when federal agents enter school grounds and take kids away. you haven't seen my parent's nursing home sending the senior leadership outside the building to look for patrols before they let the staff leave (the staff is all legal/greencard holders, but see note above -- ICE doesn't care). It's not hysteria when it is your every day lived experience.
- mattmaroon 8mo ago
  There have been several raids in my city, but it is definitely nothing like what is going on in Minneapolis.
  - insane_dreamer 8mo ago
    For me, it's not just that -- I don't live in Minneapolis -- but it's the sinking realization that half the country literally voted for this and is either ok or indifferent, so long as we are maintaining our "true (WASP) American culture". Call me naive, but it has come as a pretty big shock to me that Trump has exposed just how rotten a good fraction of Americans are -- and that's before even getting into the removal of climate change action (something I care very deeply about because it concerns my children's future), cuts to science, healthcare and higher education, foreign policy (admittedly, the US has always been a bully, but it's even worse now), clear attempts to rig the upcoming elections, etc. etc.
throwawayohio 8mo ago
What? This happened a few blocks from my home: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/08/17/dc-arrests-violent-takedown-immigration/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/08/17/dc-arrest... As did this: https://www.thedailybeast.com/ice-goons-tear-down-pro-immigration-banner-and-leave-dildo-on-display/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/ice-goons-tear-down-pro-immigr... These neighborhoods are high income, predominantly white, and filled with families. My oldest has come home terrified because he turned a corner while playing outside and physically bumped in a guardsman carry a rifle. I get it that some of you don't live in places that are immediately impacted by this administration, but some of us have to confront this on a daily basis.
- mattmaroon 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - throwawayohio 8mo ago
    I'm sorry but your summary of what I posted is so selective that I have to assume you're replying in bad faith.
    - brettgriffin 8mo ago
      I just read both articles and I think his summary is accurate enough to stand behind his claim that putting off having children (if you want them) because of a theoretical situation qualified as 'hysterical' (assuming everyone in your household is authorized). I don't think he was replying in bad faith, even if you two disagree.
      - ImPostingOnHN 8mo ago
        I also have just read both articles and think the opposite: We've got accountability-free, armed, masked, criminal thugs acting with impunity: - Taking face scans of peaceful protestors and retaliating against them later; - Racially profiling citizens and harassing them if they have the "wrong" skin color -- including local cops! - Visiting the homes of citizens who have civilly and legally criticized ICE behavior online, to intimidate them; - Invading homes without warrants and destroying evidence of their crimes (jamming wifi, covering up cameras, arresting and deporting witnesses, etc). - Arresting people who came here legally, are here legally, and have not committed a crime in their lives, then unilaterally revoking their prior legal authorization and rapidly deporting them and their whole family; - Raiding schools: kidnapping children and sending them off to torture prisons, while traumatizing the rest of the children (and assaulting some of the children too -- grown-ass men beating up children smh); - Assaulting innocent, peaceful people for protesting them, whether citizen or not, whether legally here or not, including deploying chemical agents against them; - Performing summary executions in the streets of unarmed citizens who are helping their community but do not support said masked, armed thugs; - Etc etc etc You'd have to be hysterical (or some other form of mentally unwell) to not let that affect your judgement of the wisdom of bringing young children into that world to be victims of it. Unfortunately, such hysterical, mentally unwell deniers never think (and will not accept) that they are. It’s an irrational, emotional dismissal, so it can’t be fought with logic. What they need is deprogramming, and I don’t know how to do it. I just find it interesting that the brains of so many people in the minority, even intelligent ones, have been turned this way in recent years. I see it here somewhat often (roughly in proportion to the minority they represent). They just cannot process, much less accept, that most people do not agree with them, and are not hysterical and mentally unwell like them.
handedness 8mo ago
If one can't even aspire to use a small portion of their dual tech sector incomes to illegally underpay someone to ensure they must sacrifice neither sleep nor income in the raising of their own children, well, then, the American dream is well and truly dead for all.

matthewkayin 8mo ago

Don't be ridiculous, talking about "partisan fear". They have taken away documented, American citizens without due process. When armed men can take you out of your home or your car and whisk you away without a judicial warrant and without due process, it is very reasonable to be afraid.

a_better_world 8mo ago
or just shoot you while you are in your car.
mattmaroon 8mo ago
It’s really not. Define taken away. They’ve absolutely detained some citizens, then let them go. And again, not defending what they are doing, they are awful,but you are probably more likely to be hit by lightning than you are to have any of your family planning go wrong because of them if you are a full citizen. (If you are undocumented here right now, yeah, totally.) Hysterical people think they are being rational and stuff like this is exactly what they say.
- bigyabai 8mo ago
  > you are probably more likely to be hit by lightning I get that you're trying to rationalize this scenario, but this line is completely false. If there was a nation-wide wave of aviation terrorism, it would not be appropriate to say that you're "more likely to be hit by lightning" than risk your life in a plane. The situation has changed, and they're not being hysterical for observing the trends and adjusting accordingly. Lightning has a relatively static chance of hitting you. The likelihood of feds accidentally executing you in your hometown is on the rise, and we don't know when it will stop climbing.
  - kadabra9 8mo ago
    [flagged]
  - handedness 8mo ago
    > Lightning has a relatively static chance of hitting you. That was fun.
- prh8 8mo ago
  Their own data reports that they are holding tens of thousands of citizens who have committed no crimes. They have murdered people in broad daylight and allowing many more to suffer and even die in their facilities. People are not being hysterical, and the people who are downplaying or ignoring this are showing that they are in fact evil.
  - Izikiel43 8mo ago
    > Their own data reports that they are holding tens of thousands of citizens who have committed no crimes. A source would be nice
  - kadabra9 8mo ago
    Tens of thousands of "citizens" or "residents"? There's an important distinction here.
    - thunderfork 8mo ago
      First they came for the "residents", and I said nothing, because there were important distinctions to be made...
      - kadabra9 8mo ago
        So in other words your claim that they are holding tens of thousands of "citizens" is fabricated. cool, thanks for clearing that up.
        thunderfork 8mo ago
        I'm not the person you think you're replying to. However, since you're here: etymological arguments are really not the win you should be chasing.
    - prh8 8mo ago
      Citizens. US citizens
- samus 8mo ago
  Do you really think you have a holographic sign floating above you that tells them you are a citizen? How are you sure you are above suspicion to be an undocumented immigrant? Could you prove you aren't if some goons decided to pick you off the street right now or next time you go for a walk? All this is about expanding the reach and normalizing abuse of the power of law enforcement, just like back then after 9/11. It's like Germany in the 1930s again when Jews were required to wear a yellow star on their clothes, but the other way round.
- BeetleB 8mo ago
  > Define taken away. You already did it: > They’ve absolutely detained some citizens, then let them go. That is taken away. Someone in my network - a US citizen - was detained, taken to a city 3 hours away, and held for 10 days before being released. Was quite a while before her family knew where she was. If you're an American who is visibly Hispanic, it's not at all hysterical. If you're in one of those cities, you do have to worry whether you'll return home when you leave your house.

a_better_world 8mo ago

I guess you don't live in Minneapolis, or another targeted metro area. It is hard to imagine what it is like to live in a city where 3000 masked and poorly trained people cos-playing special forces are specifically tasked with arresting as many people as they can and told that they have full immunity. you haven't seen the effect on schools when federal agents enter school grounds and take kids away. you haven't seen my parent's nursing home sending the senior leadership outside the building to look for patrols before they let the staff leave (the staff is all legal/greencard holders, but see note above -- ICE doesn't care). It's not hysteria when it is your every day lived experience.

mattmaroon 8mo ago
There have been several raids in my city, but it is definitely nothing like what is going on in Minneapolis.
- insane_dreamer 8mo ago
  For me, it's not just that -- I don't live in Minneapolis -- but it's the sinking realization that half the country literally voted for this and is either ok or indifferent, so long as we are maintaining our "true (WASP) American culture". Call me naive, but it has come as a pretty big shock to me that Trump has exposed just how rotten a good fraction of Americans are -- and that's before even getting into the removal of climate change action (something I care very deeply about because it concerns my children's future), cuts to science, healthcare and higher education, foreign policy (admittedly, the US has always been a bully, but it's even worse now), clear attempts to rig the upcoming elections, etc. etc.

throwawayohio 8mo ago

What? This happened a few blocks from my home: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/08/17/dc-arrests-violent-takedown-immigration/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/08/17/dc-arrest... As did this: https://www.thedailybeast.com/ice-goons-tear-down-pro-immigration-banner-and-leave-dildo-on-display/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/ice-goons-tear-down-pro-immigr... These neighborhoods are high income, predominantly white, and filled with families. My oldest has come home terrified because he turned a corner while playing outside and physically bumped in a guardsman carry a rifle. I get it that some of you don't live in places that are immediately impacted by this administration, but some of us have to confront this on a daily basis.

mattmaroon 8mo ago
[flagged]
- throwawayohio 8mo ago
  I'm sorry but your summary of what I posted is so selective that I have to assume you're replying in bad faith.
  - brettgriffin 8mo ago
    I just read both articles and I think his summary is accurate enough to stand behind his claim that putting off having children (if you want them) because of a theoretical situation qualified as 'hysterical' (assuming everyone in your household is authorized). I don't think he was replying in bad faith, even if you two disagree.
    - ImPostingOnHN 8mo ago
      I also have just read both articles and think the opposite: We've got accountability-free, armed, masked, criminal thugs acting with impunity: - Taking face scans of peaceful protestors and retaliating against them later; - Racially profiling citizens and harassing them if they have the "wrong" skin color -- including local cops! - Visiting the homes of citizens who have civilly and legally criticized ICE behavior online, to intimidate them; - Invading homes without warrants and destroying evidence of their crimes (jamming wifi, covering up cameras, arresting and deporting witnesses, etc). - Arresting people who came here legally, are here legally, and have not committed a crime in their lives, then unilaterally revoking their prior legal authorization and rapidly deporting them and their whole family; - Raiding schools: kidnapping children and sending them off to torture prisons, while traumatizing the rest of the children (and assaulting some of the children too -- grown-ass men beating up children smh); - Assaulting innocent, peaceful people for protesting them, whether citizen or not, whether legally here or not, including deploying chemical agents against them; - Performing summary executions in the streets of unarmed citizens who are helping their community but do not support said masked, armed thugs; - Etc etc etc You'd have to be hysterical (or some other form of mentally unwell) to not let that affect your judgement of the wisdom of bringing young children into that world to be victims of it. Unfortunately, such hysterical, mentally unwell deniers never think (and will not accept) that they are. It’s an irrational, emotional dismissal, so it can’t be fought with logic. What they need is deprogramming, and I don’t know how to do it. I just find it interesting that the brains of so many people in the minority, even intelligent ones, have been turned this way in recent years. I see it here somewhat often (roughly in proportion to the minority they represent). They just cannot process, much less accept, that most people do not agree with them, and are not hysterical and mentally unwell like them.

handedness 8mo ago

If one can't even aspire to use a small portion of their dual tech sector incomes to illegally underpay someone to ensure they must sacrifice neither sleep nor income in the raising of their own children, well, then, the American dream is well and truly dead for all.