4 ms·

I'm a programmer in my mid 40s, and sadly I can see that most 40+ programmers generally offer less value to their employers than they did a decade ago. There a

by tsotha 14y ago

I'm a programmer in my mid 40s, and sadly I can see that most 40+ programmers generally offer less value to their employers than they did a decade ago. There are reasons for this: 1. Health. This is a big one. By 50 sitting on your ass every work day for 30 years has caught up with you. Hypertension, sleep apnea, diabetes, back pain, etc. You're going to take more sick days, take more time off to see the doctor, and you're going to come to work on drugs that make you tired or a little fuzzy, mentally. 2. Lack of energy. Even if you're healthy at 50 you don't have the same ability to roll with problems that you did when you were 32. You can't put in extra time and maintain productivity. When you get home you don't have the energy to tinker with technical stuff just for the fun of it. 3. Cognitive decline. Nobody likes to think about this, but the reality is for most people cognitive decline starts in your 30s. By 50 it's affecting your productivity. Things that you used to remember for as long as it mattered (like file, class, or machine names) you have to write down now. It takes longer to pick up new technologies and you forget them faster. This translates into lower productivity. Maybe a little lower, maybe a lot. So even though I'm getting to the age where it affects me, I don't blame companies and individuals for their reluctance to hire older guys. It's based on real-world considerations. If I get laid off will I be able to find another programming job? Probably, but it's going to be a lot more difficult than it would have been 15 or 20 years ago. I refuse to be bitter about it, though. I had my chance to go into management and decided to keep writing code, even though I knew things would get dicey later.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
plinkplonk 14y ago
Health, lack of energy and cognitive decline, all good points. Yet, it doesn't have to be that way in your forties. Both candidates running for the Presidency, and both Vice President candidates are older than 40 (Paul Ryan barely so) and have tonnes of energy. The right takeaway might be that you need to actively focus on your health as you grow older. Sounds like good advice for anyone, programmer or not. (downvoted? wtf? )
- tsotha 14y ago
  >Yet, it doesn't have to be that way in your forties. I'm not saying once you hit your 40s you're useless, just that you're a bit slower than you were. From a company's perspective it makes a lot more sense to hire people who are younger - that's just playing the odds. >Both candidates running for the Presidency, and both Vice President candidates are older than 40 (Paul Ryan barely so) and have tonnes of energy. How would you know? Those guys have staffs to handle every conceivable need so they can use all the energy they have in public.
- kamaal 14y ago
  You are being down voted for a reason. You are pointing examples of professions, where people take risky decisions but do not do heavy lifting themselves. In such professions experience counts. If you have to hire an army of java programmers to finish a MegaCorp project in an year. Are you going to hire 25 year old or 50 year olds? Considering the bulk of the work hardly involves any risky decision making and most of it is actually working 16 hours a day?
  - plinkplonk 14y ago
    but I didn't say anything about programming. Just that being in your forties (vs say your sixties) you don't have to be dumb and slow. But whatever. I was just puzzled as to why someone would want to downvote the idea that you can be alert and sharp in your forties.
    - kamaal 14y ago
      Absolutely not, if you are worth your salt you can work hard at any age. But the word isn't can, its will. The question you have to ask is will I work hard instead of can I work hard. The answer to the can question is yes. Unless you are disabled or have other serious problems you can work hard, but will you? Or will everybody else?
jebblue 14y ago
Every time you said you you meant you not us. I can't give up, I'm driven, I drive. I code and I'm good. Kiss my grits and sit on it.
- sabat 14y ago
  Exactly. "Cognitive decline"? The studies I've seen in the past ten years say it ain't necessarily so; you're talking about Joe 6-Pack, not people who use their brains for a living. We only get smarter and more nimble.
  - orangecat 14y ago
    We only get smarter and more nimble. Sadly, this appears to not be the case. All the research I'm aware of indicates that fluid intelligence peaks in your 20s and then inexorably falls. To some extent this can be offset by experience and staying mentally active, but there's no way you'll have the same memory recall at 70 that you did at 30. Yet another reason aging is awful and we should be spending a lot more effort trying to prevent or repair its damage (e.g. http://sens.org http://sens.org), rather than expensively treating and ultimately succumbing to individual diseases of old age.
    - jebblue 14y ago
      >> but there's no way you'll have the same memory recall at 70 that you did at 30. My Dad, a WWII veteran taught himself microprocessor assembly programming in the 80's for fun. When I found out he was doing what I was doing as young man and was thinking I was all hot; oops reality bytes. You have a lot to learn dude, try not to attempt to profess too much.
      - orangecat 14y ago
        That doesn't contradict anything I said. "Fluid intelligence declines after 30" != "Old people can't learn anything".
  - tsotha 14y ago
kamaal 14y ago
Not just programming, in any profession age is problem. Even in those that involve valuing experience. I mean you just get a limited window, beyond which you are always treated as a liability. The whole problem is young people make great work horses. And generally its very difficult to beat endless brute force energy with pockets of experience. That's a losing game you have to play.

by tsotha 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

plinkplonk 14y ago

Health, lack of energy and cognitive decline, all good points. Yet, it doesn't have to be that way in your forties. Both candidates running for the Presidency, and both Vice President candidates are older than 40 (Paul Ryan barely so) and have tonnes of energy. The right takeaway might be that you need to actively focus on your health as you grow older. Sounds like good advice for anyone, programmer or not. (downvoted? wtf? )

tsotha 14y ago
>Yet, it doesn't have to be that way in your forties. I'm not saying once you hit your 40s you're useless, just that you're a bit slower than you were. From a company's perspective it makes a lot more sense to hire people who are younger - that's just playing the odds. >Both candidates running for the Presidency, and both Vice President candidates are older than 40 (Paul Ryan barely so) and have tonnes of energy. How would you know? Those guys have staffs to handle every conceivable need so they can use all the energy they have in public.
kamaal 14y ago
You are being down voted for a reason. You are pointing examples of professions, where people take risky decisions but do not do heavy lifting themselves. In such professions experience counts. If you have to hire an army of java programmers to finish a MegaCorp project in an year. Are you going to hire 25 year old or 50 year olds? Considering the bulk of the work hardly involves any risky decision making and most of it is actually working 16 hours a day?
- plinkplonk 14y ago
  but I didn't say anything about programming. Just that being in your forties (vs say your sixties) you don't have to be dumb and slow. But whatever. I was just puzzled as to why someone would want to downvote the idea that you can be alert and sharp in your forties.
  - kamaal 14y ago
    Absolutely not, if you are worth your salt you can work hard at any age. But the word isn't can, its will. The question you have to ask is will I work hard instead of can I work hard. The answer to the can question is yes. Unless you are disabled or have other serious problems you can work hard, but will you? Or will everybody else?

jebblue 14y ago

Every time you said you you meant you not us. I can't give up, I'm driven, I drive. I code and I'm good. Kiss my grits and sit on it.

sabat 14y ago
Exactly. "Cognitive decline"? The studies I've seen in the past ten years say it ain't necessarily so; you're talking about Joe 6-Pack, not people who use their brains for a living. We only get smarter and more nimble.
- orangecat 14y ago
  We only get smarter and more nimble. Sadly, this appears to not be the case. All the research I'm aware of indicates that fluid intelligence peaks in your 20s and then inexorably falls. To some extent this can be offset by experience and staying mentally active, but there's no way you'll have the same memory recall at 70 that you did at 30. Yet another reason aging is awful and we should be spending a lot more effort trying to prevent or repair its damage (e.g. http://sens.org http://sens.org), rather than expensively treating and ultimately succumbing to individual diseases of old age.
  - jebblue 14y ago
    >> but there's no way you'll have the same memory recall at 70 that you did at 30. My Dad, a WWII veteran taught himself microprocessor assembly programming in the 80's for fun. When I found out he was doing what I was doing as young man and was thinking I was all hot; oops reality bytes. You have a lot to learn dude, try not to attempt to profess too much.
    - orangecat 14y ago
      That doesn't contradict anything I said. "Fluid intelligence declines after 30" != "Old people can't learn anything".
- tsotha 14y ago

kamaal 14y ago

Not just programming, in any profession age is problem. Even in those that involve valuing experience. I mean you just get a limited window, beyond which you are always treated as a liability. The whole problem is young people make great work horses. And generally its very difficult to beat endless brute force energy with pockets of experience. That's a losing game you have to play.