3 ms·

Ezekiel 23:2–21 is CSAM by the same standard. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2023%3A2-21&version=KJV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage

Ezekiel 23:2–21 is CSAM by the same standard. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2023%3A2-21&version=KJV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2023%3A... Criminalizing fictional expression solely on the basis that it depicts sexual exploitation of a minor, absent any real victim, collapses a long-recognized legal distinction between depiction and abuse and renders the law impermissibly overbroad. Canonical texts routinely protected and distributed in Australia, including religious and historical works such as the Book of Ezekiel, contain explicit descriptions of sexual abuse occurring “in youth,” employed for allegorical, condemnatory, or instructional purposes. These works are not proscribed precisely because courts recognize that context, intent, and literary function are essential limiting principles. A standard that disregards those principles would not only criminalize private fictional prose but would logically extend to scripture, survivor memoirs, journalism, and historical documentation, thereby producing arbitrary enforcement and a profound chilling effect on lawful expression. Accordingly, absent a requirement of real-world harm or exploitative intent, such an application of child abuse material statutes exceeds their legitimate protective purpose and infringes foundational free expression principles.

Markoff 8mo ago
youth (15-24)/virginity/incest ≠ child abuse (CSAM) I would even argue 15+ is age of consent in most of the western world, so having sex with 15yo is hardly an CSAM
- Luker88 8mo ago
  Deuteronomy 22:28‑29, "young woman...of tender age". For Jewish tradition this means 12 year old, age at which the Jews once considered girls capable of marriage. Lot daughters are also believed to be less than 15. Famously also the prophet Mohammed consumed a marriage with a 9 year old, and that was seen as normal and approved by all previous text and tradition. No age is ever explicitly defined for any case, because "csam" and "underage sex" just were not concepts people gave thought to. Recognizing that some cases are probably fine by today's standard is fine, but refusing to recognize that at least some of them must have been way too young is ignoring a lot of evidence.
- FrustratedMonky 8mo ago
  "so having sex with 15yo is hardly an CSAM" Love it when the right moves the goal post. "Well actually, 15 is fine".
  - Markoff 8mo ago
    what does it have to do with right? you think 15yo leftist kids don't have sex? btw. I didn't say it's fine, I said it's not CSAM and it's legal in most of the western world, so it's not really relevant for the article we discuss here in AU the age of consent is 16
    - FrustratedMonky 8mo ago
      15 is age of consent in most of western world? not sure what 'west' you are talking about. Did you keep going so far west you ended up in middle east? Might have agreed with 16, a lot of US states in the 'south' have 16. There is a pattern, the more backward, and religious a region, the lower the age is ok.
      - Markoff 8mo ago
        US is one country, NGAF about your states here you have Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_in_Europe#/media/File:Age_of_consent_-_Europe.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_in_Europe#/medi... here you have western world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world#/media/File:The_Western_World.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world#/media/File:The_... Canada, AU and NZ have all 16, nobody cares about one year difference, find someone else for your nitpicking
        FrustratedMonky 8mo ago
        Dude. A lot of people care about 1 year, especially courts and lawyers. If we wanted to get actually detailed. We'd probably need to also differentiate between laws that try to protect kids, like if 17 year old boy and 16 year old girl, is different situation than 45 year old man flying them to an island. There should be effort to not victimize young men that are just 1-2 years on other side. The issue is, why are Republicans rabid about protecting kids until a Republican politician is caught flying them around and crossing state lines. Then people come out of the woodwork with "well actually in ancient times 12 was old enough, indubitably".

Markoff 8mo ago

youth (15-24)/virginity/incest ≠ child abuse (CSAM) I would even argue 15+ is age of consent in most of the western world, so having sex with 15yo is hardly an CSAM

Luker88 8mo ago
Deuteronomy 22:28‑29, "young woman...of tender age". For Jewish tradition this means 12 year old, age at which the Jews once considered girls capable of marriage. Lot daughters are also believed to be less than 15. Famously also the prophet Mohammed consumed a marriage with a 9 year old, and that was seen as normal and approved by all previous text and tradition. No age is ever explicitly defined for any case, because "csam" and "underage sex" just were not concepts people gave thought to. Recognizing that some cases are probably fine by today's standard is fine, but refusing to recognize that at least some of them must have been way too young is ignoring a lot of evidence.
FrustratedMonky 8mo ago
"so having sex with 15yo is hardly an CSAM" Love it when the right moves the goal post. "Well actually, 15 is fine".
- Markoff 8mo ago
  what does it have to do with right? you think 15yo leftist kids don't have sex? btw. I didn't say it's fine, I said it's not CSAM and it's legal in most of the western world, so it's not really relevant for the article we discuss here in AU the age of consent is 16
  - FrustratedMonky 8mo ago
    15 is age of consent in most of western world? not sure what 'west' you are talking about. Did you keep going so far west you ended up in middle east? Might have agreed with 16, a lot of US states in the 'south' have 16. There is a pattern, the more backward, and religious a region, the lower the age is ok.
    - Markoff 8mo ago
      US is one country, NGAF about your states here you have Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_in_Europe#/media/File:Age_of_consent_-_Europe.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_in_Europe#/medi... here you have western world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world#/media/File:The_Western_World.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world#/media/File:The_... Canada, AU and NZ have all 16, nobody cares about one year difference, find someone else for your nitpicking
      - FrustratedMonky 8mo ago
        Dude. A lot of people care about 1 year, especially courts and lawyers. If we wanted to get actually detailed. We'd probably need to also differentiate between laws that try to protect kids, like if 17 year old boy and 16 year old girl, is different situation than 45 year old man flying them to an island. There should be effort to not victimize young men that are just 1-2 years on other side. The issue is, why are Republicans rabid about protecting kids until a Republican politician is caught flying them around and crossing state lines. Then people come out of the woodwork with "well actually in ancient times 12 was old enough, indubitably".