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I think Apple / Google need to implement verification on the device - we already accept the device knows who we are. And then social media platforms should be

I think Apple / Google need to implement verification on the device - we already accept the device knows who we are. And then social media platforms should be able to have the device confirm the user is over 18 and that’s all they need to know.

Iulioh 8mo ago
At this point might as well... There is a news story every 12 minutes for a company that leaked IDs
- jonplackett 8mo ago
  I really think on device verification is the way to go - and I don’t even see why we need to use ID. Parents are always in control of a kids device. Just mandate devices have a child mode that parents can activate and have it send a ‘this is a child’ flag to all websites and apps. But this assumes this isn’t all about ID checking everyone online, which is what it’s really about.
Arkanosis 8mo ago
That would either mean you can tell the device to lie (which makes it useless), or that you don't own the device you use (which makes it unacceptable).
- sebtron 8mo ago
  > or that you don't own the device you use (which makes it unacceptable) It's already like this, unless you go out of your way to install a custom Android rom, which 99.9% of people will never do. I agree it is unacceptable.
- jonplackett 8mo ago
  The thing is though - only KIDS need to not own their device. With parents overseeing it. Why do we even need to age check adults?
absolutevibe 8mo ago
Apple already has this https://developer.apple.com/documentation/declaredagerange/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/declaredagerange/ I saw Claude app request it the other day.
tom1337 8mo ago
Apple actually has this already. For countries that support IDs in Apple Wallet there is a "Verify with Wallet API" [1] and for other countries the app developer can get the age range from the iCloud Account [2] - but that is not verified with any legal authority and only based on user input. 1) https://developer.apple.com/wallet/get-started-with-verify-with-wallet/ https://developer.apple.com/wallet/get-started-with-verify-w... 2) https://developer.apple.com/documentation/declaredagerange/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/declaredagerange/
HackerThemAll 8mo ago
I have my Gmail account since they were on invitations, circa 2004, and Google certainly knows this. That's the ultimate proof I'm an adult :-) That information could be exposed and used by 3rd parties.
gib444 8mo ago
Happily walking right down the path they are leading us down... A world where nothing can be accessed except through a Google or Apple hardware-attested, photo ID verified device
lII1lIlI11ll 8mo ago
This only applies if you take all those "protect the children" initiatives at face value. It seems to me that the actual reasons are different. Governments want to police speech online and be able to arrest people who say things they don't approve of, so they are pushing platforms to collect user's PID. Some also want to discourage people from doing things they don't want them to do but that are politically unfeasible to criminalize (watching videos of consenting adults engaging in all kinds of sexual acts) and adding more and more friction to the process (no pun intended!) is the best thing they can get. And the internet companies want more of your data to track you.
- direwolf20 8mo ago
  Like the UK, where you can tweet that someone should burn down a hotel full of migrants, and you can be arrested for tweeting that. Or like Russia, where you can tweet that you don't like the president, and you can be arrested for tweeting that?
  - lII1lIlI11ll 8mo ago
    Like both, of course! When you build a panopticon for some group you perceive as "good guys" to use keep in mind that eventually it will be controlled by "bad guys".
    - tim333 8mo ago
      The burn down a hotel thing wasn't about panopticons - Lucy Connolly posted publicly with her own name and photo. (https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRestIsPolitics/comments/1lvrepk/lucy_connolly_and_kneecap_can_comparisons_be_drawn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRestIsPolitics/comments/1lvrepk/...) The sentence was probably excessive though.
      - lII1lIlI11ll 8mo ago
        UK also apparently arrest people for posting videos of zieg heiling dogs and other such nonsense. Which is exactly my point - once the instruments to track and de-anonymize people online are set up, they eventually will be used for all kinds of purposes.
nticompass 8mo ago
How would that work on a PC? Not everyone uses Discord on their phone/tablet.
kobalsky 8mo ago
jumping from the frying pan straight into the fire. why on earth would you give Google or Apple more attestation power and control.

Iulioh 8mo ago

At this point might as well... There is a news story every 12 minutes for a company that leaked IDs

jonplackett 8mo ago
I really think on device verification is the way to go - and I don’t even see why we need to use ID. Parents are always in control of a kids device. Just mandate devices have a child mode that parents can activate and have it send a ‘this is a child’ flag to all websites and apps. But this assumes this isn’t all about ID checking everyone online, which is what it’s really about.

Arkanosis 8mo ago

That would either mean you can tell the device to lie (which makes it useless), or that you don't own the device you use (which makes it unacceptable).

sebtron 8mo ago
> or that you don't own the device you use (which makes it unacceptable) It's already like this, unless you go out of your way to install a custom Android rom, which 99.9% of people will never do. I agree it is unacceptable.
jonplackett 8mo ago
The thing is though - only KIDS need to not own their device. With parents overseeing it. Why do we even need to age check adults?

absolutevibe 8mo ago

Apple already has this https://developer.apple.com/documentation/declaredagerange/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/declaredagerange/ I saw Claude app request it the other day.

tom1337 8mo ago

Apple actually has this already. For countries that support IDs in Apple Wallet there is a "Verify with Wallet API" [1] and for other countries the app developer can get the age range from the iCloud Account [2] - but that is not verified with any legal authority and only based on user input. 1) https://developer.apple.com/wallet/get-started-with-verify-with-wallet/ https://developer.apple.com/wallet/get-started-with-verify-w... 2) https://developer.apple.com/documentation/declaredagerange/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/declaredagerange/

HackerThemAll 8mo ago

I have my Gmail account since they were on invitations, circa 2004, and Google certainly knows this. That's the ultimate proof I'm an adult :-) That information could be exposed and used by 3rd parties.

gib444 8mo ago

Happily walking right down the path they are leading us down... A world where nothing can be accessed except through a Google or Apple hardware-attested, photo ID verified device

lII1lIlI11ll 8mo ago

This only applies if you take all those "protect the children" initiatives at face value. It seems to me that the actual reasons are different. Governments want to police speech online and be able to arrest people who say things they don't approve of, so they are pushing platforms to collect user's PID. Some also want to discourage people from doing things they don't want them to do but that are politically unfeasible to criminalize (watching videos of consenting adults engaging in all kinds of sexual acts) and adding more and more friction to the process (no pun intended!) is the best thing they can get. And the internet companies want more of your data to track you.

direwolf20 8mo ago
Like the UK, where you can tweet that someone should burn down a hotel full of migrants, and you can be arrested for tweeting that. Or like Russia, where you can tweet that you don't like the president, and you can be arrested for tweeting that?
- lII1lIlI11ll 8mo ago
  Like both, of course! When you build a panopticon for some group you perceive as "good guys" to use keep in mind that eventually it will be controlled by "bad guys".
  - tim333 8mo ago
    The burn down a hotel thing wasn't about panopticons - Lucy Connolly posted publicly with her own name and photo. (https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRestIsPolitics/comments/1lvrepk/lucy_connolly_and_kneecap_can_comparisons_be_drawn/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRestIsPolitics/comments/1lvrepk/...) The sentence was probably excessive though.
    - lII1lIlI11ll 8mo ago
      UK also apparently arrest people for posting videos of zieg heiling dogs and other such nonsense. Which is exactly my point - once the instruments to track and de-anonymize people online are set up, they eventually will be used for all kinds of purposes.

nticompass 8mo ago

How would that work on a PC? Not everyone uses Discord on their phone/tablet.

kobalsky 8mo ago

jumping from the frying pan straight into the fire. why on earth would you give Google or Apple more attestation power and control.