4 ms·

You can have multiple instances of signal on a mobile device, and you can use VoiP or eSIMs to register. Signal with an online persona revealing no identifying

You can have multiple instances of signal on a mobile device, and you can use VoiP or eSIMs to register. Signal with an online persona revealing no identifying information, registered to a cash purchased eSIM on an ungoogled android is as good as your getting. Why do you think so many jurisdictions are trying to ban both GrapheneOS and Signal.

dns_snek 8mo ago
You can do all of that but you shouldn't have to when using a privacy-focused messenger, and most people won't so they'll be exposed and suffer the consequences if they use Signal expecting a certain level of privacy (and pseudo-anonymity). It's a terrible anti-feature and the only reason they're not being punished for it is because there aren't many alternatives to pick from.
OJFord 8mo ago
That's privacy for someone who cares deeply and will get it somehow no matter what, not default zero-effort privacy for the ignorant. (Which WhatsApp does pretty well for example.)
- oarsinsync 8mo ago
  > default zero-effort privacy for the ignorant. (Which WhatsApp does pretty well for example.) Can you elaborate on what default zero-effort privacy for the ignorant WhatsApp offers, that Signal does not?
  - OJFord 8mo ago
    I don't know, I'm not familiar with Signal. But features such as described above with worse privacy than the basic chatting functionality detract from it, it's not just that it would be a bonus if it were better, because that's exactly how effort comes in, having to know about it, and the typical layman user just blindly uses it. Take Telegram for example, where only explicitly 'secret' chats are e2ee, you have to go out of your way, it's not the easy path.
ekianjo 8mo ago
Of course it's revealing information. If I know that two users that are identified by their phone numbers are talking to each other every day, this is a clear connection you can exploit. Metadata is only useless if you have no imagination.
kenniskrag 8mo ago
In europe you need identification to buy a sim or esim. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/9ziqfi/european_countries_requiring_registration_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/9ziqfi/european_cou...
- andrepd 8mo ago
  Didn't know that the UK, the Netherlands, or Portugal aren't part of Europe... Also, you can buy phone numbers with monero for 0.08$ https://smspool.net https://smspool.net.
  - lvass 8mo ago
    And what happens when the next guy buys that same number and registers on Signal? Phone numbers are recurring costs. And to keep a truly private one you must keep paying without ever disclosing personal info and that is really hard. Signal is a privacy nightmare for long term use.
    - vel0city 8mo ago
      There is a week long registration lock protected by a PIN. Your contact list is protected by that PIN as well. They cannot access your chats. All your contacts will get a notification that the contact has changed when they go to talk to your phone number or get a message from your number. https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059792-Signal-PIN https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059792-Si...
      - lvass 8mo ago
        This is good and means no one can impersonate you using your phone number, but doesn't solve the recurring costs issue, you still need to buy a new number when someone registers yours, and every financial transaction puts you at more privacy risk. And is terrible UX, imagine having to add your contacts new numbers every other week.
        8mo ago
aaravchen 8mo ago
You could have a second actuve eSIM if you have a phone that supports more than one (no phones support more than 2 active simultaneously). Though technically the phone number only needs to be accessible for the initial account setup so I guess you could have a burner phone you switch out eSIMs on. Each Signal application only supports a single account though. So you can have one, and if you have a work profile you're not otherwise using you could have a second account in that instance.With the new Private Spaces you could potentially have a third as well. So you _may_ be able to have up to 3 simultaneous Signal accounts on the same device. I'm using my work profile and Private Space for things I can't share a Signal install with though. And I dont want to buy and maintain an extra phone number from a telco just to have another Signal profile.

dns_snek 8mo ago

You can do all of that but you shouldn't have to when using a privacy-focused messenger, and most people won't so they'll be exposed and suffer the consequences if they use Signal expecting a certain level of privacy (and pseudo-anonymity). It's a terrible anti-feature and the only reason they're not being punished for it is because there aren't many alternatives to pick from.

OJFord 8mo ago

That's privacy for someone who cares deeply and will get it somehow no matter what, not default zero-effort privacy for the ignorant. (Which WhatsApp does pretty well for example.)

oarsinsync 8mo ago
> default zero-effort privacy for the ignorant. (Which WhatsApp does pretty well for example.) Can you elaborate on what default zero-effort privacy for the ignorant WhatsApp offers, that Signal does not?
- OJFord 8mo ago
  I don't know, I'm not familiar with Signal. But features such as described above with worse privacy than the basic chatting functionality detract from it, it's not just that it would be a bonus if it were better, because that's exactly how effort comes in, having to know about it, and the typical layman user just blindly uses it. Take Telegram for example, where only explicitly 'secret' chats are e2ee, you have to go out of your way, it's not the easy path.

ekianjo 8mo ago

Of course it's revealing information. If I know that two users that are identified by their phone numbers are talking to each other every day, this is a clear connection you can exploit. Metadata is only useless if you have no imagination.

kenniskrag 8mo ago

In europe you need identification to buy a sim or esim. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/9ziqfi/european_countries_requiring_registration_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/9ziqfi/european_cou...

andrepd 8mo ago
Didn't know that the UK, the Netherlands, or Portugal aren't part of Europe... Also, you can buy phone numbers with monero for 0.08$ https://smspool.net https://smspool.net.
- lvass 8mo ago
  And what happens when the next guy buys that same number and registers on Signal? Phone numbers are recurring costs. And to keep a truly private one you must keep paying without ever disclosing personal info and that is really hard. Signal is a privacy nightmare for long term use.
  - vel0city 8mo ago
    There is a week long registration lock protected by a PIN. Your contact list is protected by that PIN as well. They cannot access your chats. All your contacts will get a notification that the contact has changed when they go to talk to your phone number or get a message from your number. https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059792-Signal-PIN https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059792-Si...
    - lvass 8mo ago
      This is good and means no one can impersonate you using your phone number, but doesn't solve the recurring costs issue, you still need to buy a new number when someone registers yours, and every financial transaction puts you at more privacy risk. And is terrible UX, imagine having to add your contacts new numbers every other week.
      - 8mo ago

aaravchen 8mo ago

You could have a second actuve eSIM if you have a phone that supports more than one (no phones support more than 2 active simultaneously). Though technically the phone number only needs to be accessible for the initial account setup so I guess you could have a burner phone you switch out eSIMs on. Each Signal application only supports a single account though. So you can have one, and if you have a work profile you're not otherwise using you could have a second account in that instance.With the new Private Spaces you could potentially have a third as well. So you _may_ be able to have up to 3 simultaneous Signal accounts on the same device. I'm using my work profile and Private Space for things I can't share a Signal install with though. And I dont want to buy and maintain an extra phone number from a telco just to have another Signal profile.