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Most people don't care if they feel it helps solve crimes. I doubt it does 90% of the time though.

by vondur 8mo ago

SoftTalker 8mo ago
That's the thing, it legitimately does solve some crimes. And both Flock and the police who use it will quickly trot out some high profile examples. It is one of those classic "if it saves one child it's worth any price" arguments. Are you OK with being tracked everywhere you go in public so that some bad guys don't get away with their bad activities? Many people are.
- superkuh 8mo ago
  Flock cameras are probably the cause of more crime than they solve with all the abuse by employees, federal agencies, and the general insecurity.
  - Sebguer 8mo ago
    It's the wage theft versus retail theft problem, no matter which one has higher 'real' costs, society has decided that one is the 'real' problem that we should prioritize.
  - toephu2 8mo ago
    Doubt it. Any sources for that? I am in favor of the flock cameras. Most people tend to behave if they know they are being watched. They have helped reduce crime in the cities they've been deployed in.
    - potatototoo99 8mo ago
      That's the good thing about police states, no crime! (except state-sanctioned crimes against humanity of course)
    - dawnerd 8mo ago
      Please cite your source for that. Cities are pulling out of contracts with flock because they lied about who has access to data and there’s been improper access.
      - try_the_bass 8mo ago
        You're not really refuting his point. Cities aren't pulling out of Flock contacts because Flock isn't effective at clearing crimes. They're pulling out because Flock has garbage security, lies about who has/had access to the data, and generally argues in bad faith about all of it. These are separate concerns. I think ALPRs with proper access controls, short retention periods, and strict auditing/oversight are a net good. Flock... Not so much.
    - superkuh 8mo ago
      >“Communities rejecting Flock aren’t choosing to be less safe; quite the opposite,” Hamid said. “They are coming to terms with how such a massive, sprawling, and ultimately ungovernable surveillance system puts themselves and their community members at risk.” https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/11/flock-haters-cross-political-divides-to-remove-error-prone-cameras/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/11/flock-haters-cro... https://www.wyden.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/wyden_letter_to_flock.pdf https://www.wyden.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/wyden_letter_to_f... https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-krishnamoorthi-urge-ftc-to-investigate-surveillance-tech-company-on-negligently-handling-americans-personal-data https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-krish... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/06/flock-safetys-feature-updates-cannot-make-automated-license-plate-readers-safe https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/06/flock-safetys-feature-... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/11/human-toll-alpr-errors https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/11/human-toll-alpr-errors https://www.404media.co/a-texas-cop-searched-license-plate-cameras-nationwide-for-a-woman-who-got-an-abortion/ https://www.404media.co/a-texas-cop-searched-license-plate-c... https://www.404media.co/ice-taps-into-nationwide-ai-enabled-camera-network-data-shows/ https://www.404media.co/ice-taps-into-nationwide-ai-enabled-... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/10/flocks-gunshot-detection-microphones-will-start-listening-human-voices https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/10/flocks-gunshot-detecti... https://denverite.com/2025/10/27/bow-mar-flock-cameras-accusation/ https://denverite.com/2025/10/27/bow-mar-flock-cameras-accus... https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2025/04/02/detroit-settles-lawsuit-license-plate-reader-error-isoke-robinson/82753538007/ https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2025... https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/doritos-or-gun https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/doritos-or-gun - not flock but a dangerous example of AI surveillance camera false positives risking people's lives. And even with that minimal effort I've already provided about the same quality of sources that Flock corporate does for their claims.
- toephu2 8mo ago
  > Are you OK with being tracked everywhere you go in public so that some bad guys don't get away with their bad activities? Many people are. If it helps catch 1/10 criminals? or even 1 more out of 100 criminals than would be otherwise caught? I am. I have nothing to hide. Also, in public, anyone can record you on video without your permission anyway.
  - text0404 8mo ago
    > I have nothing to hide What's your full name and current address? Where do you work? What locations do you frequent in your day-to-day life? Who do you live with and spend the most time with? Can you please list their full names and contact information? Would you mind turning on location tracking on your phone? Once you've done this, let me know and I'll email you so you can share it with me.
    - roughly 8mo ago
      Also, what church do you attend? Is it the right one? Who’d you vote for last time? Who do you plan to vote for this time? Is your spouse or romantic partner the right kind of person? Are you sure? What hobbies do you have? What books are you reading? What’s really going on in that head of yours?
      - kemotep 8mo ago
        We’re going to need bank accounts. Not just the account number and routing number, to validate transaction history against known Terrorist organization affiliated bank accounts but also their login information so we can review credit card statements and so on. Because they have nothing hide they shouldn’t fear anyone being able to access this information after all.
    - toephu2 8mo ago
      But Flock doesn't ask for this nor does it gather this information. I know what you are trying to do. You are trying to say this is just the first step to a full invasion of privacy. Except it's not. They are trying to make America safer. They don't want full control of your life. You are taking this example too far to the extreme. Also Flock cameras just record license plates. Have you ever been to South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore or any other democratic nation with lots of CCTVs? Have you seen the crime rates there? basically 0. I wish we could have those levels of crime in the U.S.
- dawnerd 8mo ago
  I don’t think many are. Most are clueless. If you ask just would you mind a camera if it stops a crime sure people would say yes but if you asked it with all the details of what that data is used for beyond solving crime they’d for sure mostly say no.

Most people don't care if they feel it helps solve crimes. I doubt it does 90% of the time though.

by vondur 8mo ago

Most people don't care if they feel it helps solve crimes. I doubt it does 90% of the time though.

That's the thing, it legitimately does solve some crimes. And both Flock and the police who use it will quickly trot out some high profile examples. It is one of those classic "if it saves one child it's worth any price" arguments. Are you OK with being tracked everywhere you go in public so that some bad guys don't get away with their bad activities? Many people are.

superkuh 8mo ago
Flock cameras are probably the cause of more crime than they solve with all the abuse by employees, federal agencies, and the general insecurity.
- Sebguer 8mo ago
  It's the wage theft versus retail theft problem, no matter which one has higher 'real' costs, society has decided that one is the 'real' problem that we should prioritize.
- toephu2 8mo ago
  Doubt it. Any sources for that? I am in favor of the flock cameras. Most people tend to behave if they know they are being watched. They have helped reduce crime in the cities they've been deployed in.
  - potatototoo99 8mo ago
    That's the good thing about police states, no crime! (except state-sanctioned crimes against humanity of course)
  - dawnerd 8mo ago
    Please cite your source for that. Cities are pulling out of contracts with flock because they lied about who has access to data and there’s been improper access.
    - try_the_bass 8mo ago
      You're not really refuting his point. Cities aren't pulling out of Flock contacts because Flock isn't effective at clearing crimes. They're pulling out because Flock has garbage security, lies about who has/had access to the data, and generally argues in bad faith about all of it. These are separate concerns. I think ALPRs with proper access controls, short retention periods, and strict auditing/oversight are a net good. Flock... Not so much.
  - superkuh 8mo ago
    >“Communities rejecting Flock aren’t choosing to be less safe; quite the opposite,” Hamid said. “They are coming to terms with how such a massive, sprawling, and ultimately ungovernable surveillance system puts themselves and their community members at risk.” https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/11/flock-haters-cross-political-divides-to-remove-error-prone-cameras/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/11/flock-haters-cro... https://www.wyden.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/wyden_letter_to_flock.pdf https://www.wyden.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/wyden_letter_to_f... https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-krishnamoorthi-urge-ftc-to-investigate-surveillance-tech-company-on-negligently-handling-americans-personal-data https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-krish... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/06/flock-safetys-feature-updates-cannot-make-automated-license-plate-readers-safe https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/06/flock-safetys-feature-... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/11/human-toll-alpr-errors https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/11/human-toll-alpr-errors https://www.404media.co/a-texas-cop-searched-license-plate-cameras-nationwide-for-a-woman-who-got-an-abortion/ https://www.404media.co/a-texas-cop-searched-license-plate-c... https://www.404media.co/ice-taps-into-nationwide-ai-enabled-camera-network-data-shows/ https://www.404media.co/ice-taps-into-nationwide-ai-enabled-... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/10/flocks-gunshot-detection-microphones-will-start-listening-human-voices https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/10/flocks-gunshot-detecti... https://denverite.com/2025/10/27/bow-mar-flock-cameras-accusation/ https://denverite.com/2025/10/27/bow-mar-flock-cameras-accus... https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2025/04/02/detroit-settles-lawsuit-license-plate-reader-error-isoke-robinson/82753538007/ https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2025... https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/doritos-or-gun https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/doritos-or-gun - not flock but a dangerous example of AI surveillance camera false positives risking people's lives. And even with that minimal effort I've already provided about the same quality of sources that Flock corporate does for their claims.
toephu2 8mo ago
> Are you OK with being tracked everywhere you go in public so that some bad guys don't get away with their bad activities? Many people are. If it helps catch 1/10 criminals? or even 1 more out of 100 criminals than would be otherwise caught? I am. I have nothing to hide. Also, in public, anyone can record you on video without your permission anyway.
- text0404 8mo ago
  > I have nothing to hide What's your full name and current address? Where do you work? What locations do you frequent in your day-to-day life? Who do you live with and spend the most time with? Can you please list their full names and contact information? Would you mind turning on location tracking on your phone? Once you've done this, let me know and I'll email you so you can share it with me.
  - roughly 8mo ago
    Also, what church do you attend? Is it the right one? Who’d you vote for last time? Who do you plan to vote for this time? Is your spouse or romantic partner the right kind of person? Are you sure? What hobbies do you have? What books are you reading? What’s really going on in that head of yours?
    - kemotep 8mo ago
      We’re going to need bank accounts. Not just the account number and routing number, to validate transaction history against known Terrorist organization affiliated bank accounts but also their login information so we can review credit card statements and so on. Because they have nothing hide they shouldn’t fear anyone being able to access this information after all.
  - toephu2 8mo ago
    But Flock doesn't ask for this nor does it gather this information. I know what you are trying to do. You are trying to say this is just the first step to a full invasion of privacy. Except it's not. They are trying to make America safer. They don't want full control of your life. You are taking this example too far to the extreme. Also Flock cameras just record license plates. Have you ever been to South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore or any other democratic nation with lots of CCTVs? Have you seen the crime rates there? basically 0. I wish we could have those levels of crime in the U.S.
dawnerd 8mo ago
I don’t think many are. Most are clueless. If you ask just would you mind a camera if it stops a crime sure people would say yes but if you asked it with all the details of what that data is used for beyond solving crime they’d for sure mostly say no.