4 ms·

Show one example of Chinese imperialism. Or soviet imperialism. Or Vietnamese imperialism. Or Cuban imperialism.

komali2 8mo ago
Do you mean PRC? The invasion of Tibet is canonically imperialism according to Party doctrine: they were "freeing the population" from the reactionary ruling class, which is maybe a great thing to do, but is by definition imperialism. Making threats against sovereign Taiwan is imperialism, though of course a soft form for now. However it has engaged in imperialist economic pressure such as when it prevented vaccine deliveries to Taiwan during COVID-19, forcing the country to develop its own domestic vaccine. The genocide and economic exploitation in Xinjiang is old school imperialism. As for the soviets, if American operations in Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam are imperialism, then so too were Soviet operations in Afghanistan.
- derelicta 8mo ago
  For Tibet, may I remind you the local population rose up against tyranny. That they requested assistance from their central govt into putting down rabid theocrats is only fair tbh. But as every time, when the people are fighting against criminals, the western press only gives the microphone to the said criminals, especially when the stolen property of those criminals is being freed (the property being humans). Also only fools still believe in a genocide in Xinjiang. Show me the camps. Show me the victims. Show me the refugees. Show me any muslim person genuinely outraged about it. I can show you plenty for Palestine, but for some reason for some western leftists, these people do not count.
  - elefanten 8mo ago
    When one is this far gone into a nationalist information bubble haze, it ceases to be productive to argue with them. Everything this poster demands to be “shown” is openly available in abundance from the relevant victims, decades of it. But offered such material they will quickly categorically dismiss it all and move goal posts again. Yes when CCP undertakes an ethnonationalist settler campaign into Tibet and then instructs the settlers to “call for help”, it can be presented as Tibet “asking” for CCP authoritarianism. Same playbook as Russia in eastern Ukraine. Yes, when the Xinjiang muslim population is terrorized by police state and concentration camps in a country with no free speech, it is hard to find locals publicly complaining and advocating for themselves.
    - derelicta 8mo ago
      1) I'm not Chinese, but I still have skin in the game for I am an internationlist. 2) Apart from a few google maps pictures, there are no pictures of those extermination camps. 3) Tibet has been part of China for centuries. Only since Mao landreforms that criminalised slavery have we been hearing about Tibet's "independence" movement. 4) If Xinjiang has concentration camps, then why are the Chinese allowing the UN , tourists and journalists in? Right now in Palestine, UN workers and journalists are shot on sight. Tourists are non existant. Muslim countries refuse to qualify any of the anti-terrorist measures as genocidal, but denounce the extermination campaign against the Palestinian people.
      - komali2 8mo ago
        So as to keep the conversation productive, could you please define "China?" I have no idea what you're talking about when you say, "Tibet has been a part of China for centuries," but it sounds like the sort of ethnonationalism that the CPC likes to play with. > If Xinjiang has concentration camps, then why are the Chinese allowing the UN , tourists and journalists in? They didn't used to, I should know, I tried to go and was rejected. Yes, Israel is committing a genocide in Palestine, and a far more violent one than the CPC committed against Xinjiang. The PLA did not snipe Uighur Muslim children in the back of head and did not airstrike hospitals in Xinjiang. It still committed a genocide. Remember the words of Chen Quanguo: "Round up everyone who should be rounded up," immediately before ordering mass arrests. I'm sorry, but I've had this conversation too many times, I will simply need to give you the challenge I've given everyone else. Please, can you canonically dismiss each of these sources? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China#References https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_Chin... There are 402 of them. I understand it's a relatively monumental task, but that's the unfortunate reality you find yourself in when you argue against consensus, it's a lot of work. If you can't do that, then, I don't understand why I should believe you instead of the mountain of evidence against you. And no, "it's all CIA" doesn't really work considering the diversity of sources. By the way, you never addressed imperialist threats against Taiwan. Could you please explain how threatening to invade a sovereign nation isn't imperialist?
kspacewalk2 8mo ago
>Chinese imperialism. Tibet, Xinjiang, invading Vietnam. >Or soviet imperialism You're joking, right? The quintessential imperialist power of the Cold War. Post-WW2 subjugation of eastern Europe. Occupation of the Baltic states. The failed colonialist war against Finland. Suppression of attempts to leave its imperialist orbit in Hungary in 1956, Czechoslovakia in 1968, to a lesser extent Poland under Gomulka. The disaster in Afghanistan was started b1y the Soviet colonialist war there, of course. >Or Vietnamese imperialism Laos was a client state for a while, and their involvement in Cambodia crossed the line into imperialism at various points in the 70s. >Or Cuban imperialism. This one has a long and storied history. Cuban mercenaries were used to bolster far-left authoritarians and Soviet-aligned strongmen all over Latam and in Africa too. Even to this day they gladly send mercs to fight Russia's fascist war of aggression in Ukraine.
mopsi 8mo ago
> Or soviet imperialism. How can you call yourself a Marxist if you have apparently not bothered to read a single book on the history of the USSR? Shining examples of imperialism are unavoidable turning points in Soviet history. The invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia are the most well-known, but one must not forget OMON terrorizing Lithuanians, the infamous MVD troops cracking the skulls of Georgians with sapper shovels, and many many other examples. Show one example of Soviet imperialism, you say? There are entire museums dedicated to the subject!

Do you mean PRC? The invasion of Tibet is canonically imperialism according to Party doctrine: they were "freeing the population" from the reactionary ruling class, which is maybe a great thing to do, but is by definition imperialism. Making threats against sovereign Taiwan is imperialism, though of course a soft form for now. However it has engaged in imperialist economic pressure such as when it prevented vaccine deliveries to Taiwan during COVID-19, forcing the country to develop its own domestic vaccine. The genocide and economic exploitation in Xinjiang is old school imperialism. As for the soviets, if American operations in Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam are imperialism, then so too were Soviet operations in Afghanistan.

derelicta 8mo ago
For Tibet, may I remind you the local population rose up against tyranny. That they requested assistance from their central govt into putting down rabid theocrats is only fair tbh. But as every time, when the people are fighting against criminals, the western press only gives the microphone to the said criminals, especially when the stolen property of those criminals is being freed (the property being humans). Also only fools still believe in a genocide in Xinjiang. Show me the camps. Show me the victims. Show me the refugees. Show me any muslim person genuinely outraged about it. I can show you plenty for Palestine, but for some reason for some western leftists, these people do not count.
- elefanten 8mo ago
  When one is this far gone into a nationalist information bubble haze, it ceases to be productive to argue with them. Everything this poster demands to be “shown” is openly available in abundance from the relevant victims, decades of it. But offered such material they will quickly categorically dismiss it all and move goal posts again. Yes when CCP undertakes an ethnonationalist settler campaign into Tibet and then instructs the settlers to “call for help”, it can be presented as Tibet “asking” for CCP authoritarianism. Same playbook as Russia in eastern Ukraine. Yes, when the Xinjiang muslim population is terrorized by police state and concentration camps in a country with no free speech, it is hard to find locals publicly complaining and advocating for themselves.
  - derelicta 8mo ago
    1) I'm not Chinese, but I still have skin in the game for I am an internationlist. 2) Apart from a few google maps pictures, there are no pictures of those extermination camps. 3) Tibet has been part of China for centuries. Only since Mao landreforms that criminalised slavery have we been hearing about Tibet's "independence" movement. 4) If Xinjiang has concentration camps, then why are the Chinese allowing the UN , tourists and journalists in? Right now in Palestine, UN workers and journalists are shot on sight. Tourists are non existant. Muslim countries refuse to qualify any of the anti-terrorist measures as genocidal, but denounce the extermination campaign against the Palestinian people.
    - komali2 8mo ago
      So as to keep the conversation productive, could you please define "China?" I have no idea what you're talking about when you say, "Tibet has been a part of China for centuries," but it sounds like the sort of ethnonationalism that the CPC likes to play with. > If Xinjiang has concentration camps, then why are the Chinese allowing the UN , tourists and journalists in? They didn't used to, I should know, I tried to go and was rejected. Yes, Israel is committing a genocide in Palestine, and a far more violent one than the CPC committed against Xinjiang. The PLA did not snipe Uighur Muslim children in the back of head and did not airstrike hospitals in Xinjiang. It still committed a genocide. Remember the words of Chen Quanguo: "Round up everyone who should be rounded up," immediately before ordering mass arrests. I'm sorry, but I've had this conversation too many times, I will simply need to give you the challenge I've given everyone else. Please, can you canonically dismiss each of these sources? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China#References https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_Chin... There are 402 of them. I understand it's a relatively monumental task, but that's the unfortunate reality you find yourself in when you argue against consensus, it's a lot of work. If you can't do that, then, I don't understand why I should believe you instead of the mountain of evidence against you. And no, "it's all CIA" doesn't really work considering the diversity of sources. By the way, you never addressed imperialist threats against Taiwan. Could you please explain how threatening to invade a sovereign nation isn't imperialist?

kspacewalk2 8mo ago

>Chinese imperialism. Tibet, Xinjiang, invading Vietnam. >Or soviet imperialism You're joking, right? The quintessential imperialist power of the Cold War. Post-WW2 subjugation of eastern Europe. Occupation of the Baltic states. The failed colonialist war against Finland. Suppression of attempts to leave its imperialist orbit in Hungary in 1956, Czechoslovakia in 1968, to a lesser extent Poland under Gomulka. The disaster in Afghanistan was started b1y the Soviet colonialist war there, of course. >Or Vietnamese imperialism Laos was a client state for a while, and their involvement in Cambodia crossed the line into imperialism at various points in the 70s. >Or Cuban imperialism. This one has a long and storied history. Cuban mercenaries were used to bolster far-left authoritarians and Soviet-aligned strongmen all over Latam and in Africa too. Even to this day they gladly send mercs to fight Russia's fascist war of aggression in Ukraine.

mopsi 8mo ago

> Or soviet imperialism. How can you call yourself a Marxist if you have apparently not bothered to read a single book on the history of the USSR? Shining examples of imperialism are unavoidable turning points in Soviet history. The invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia are the most well-known, but one must not forget OMON terrorizing Lithuanians, the infamous MVD troops cracking the skulls of Georgians with sapper shovels, and many many other examples. Show one example of Soviet imperialism, you say? There are entire museums dedicated to the subject!