4 ms·

i think calling this another victim of PE is missing the point a little bit. i guess Catalyst Brands is technically PE, but they're not just a finance company

i think calling this another victim of PE is missing the point a little bit. i guess Catalyst Brands is technically PE, but they're not just a finance company treating these brands as assets to be milked and stripped for parts before they're killed. Catalyst is a joint venture of Brookfield and Simon Property, both of which are shopping mall companies. Their other brands are all shopping mall fixtures. The story here isn't private equity doing the normal private equity thing, it's that shopping malls are dying.

basch 8mo ago
>Its e-commerce and wholesale operations are not affected by the filing because they are operated separately. >The bankruptcy doesn't affect Eddie Bauer stores in markets outside the U.S. and Canada. So its physical US locations declared bankruptcy.
bell-cot 8mo ago
One data point - in my local Simon Property shopping mall, the Eddie Bauer store closed down a few months ago. A new LL Bean store is "coming soon". In retail, a certain rate of chain/brand churn is what you'd expect. If the public feels that some chain or brand is iconic, or has been around forever - that does not magically protect the underlying corporation from missing the boat on marketplace changes, or having its management go downhill, or the founder selling out to PE, or whatever.
A_D_E_P_T 8mo ago
> The story here isn't private equity doing the normal private equity thing, it's that shopping malls are dying. That's true, but to me the more interesting question is: Why? In Europe and Asia, indoor shopping malls are thriving. They're all over the place, and very popular. This place is a stone's throw from where I live, and it's always crowded: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopping_City_Seiersberg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopping_City_Seiersberg When I go to the US, indoor malls are either depressing ghost towns, or they're luxury-only complexes with a heavy security presence and a seemingly-intentional lack of amenities. (Like a Starbucks that only has three tables despite ample interior space, nowhere else to eat, etc.) What's driving the weird variance in shopping patterns? Naively, I'd expect shopping malls to be more popular in the US, as Asia and Europe also tend to have "shopping districts" inside their (usually walkable) towns that often function, effectively, as open-air malls.
- ghaff 8mo ago
  In the US, my observation is that some relatively-highend shopping malls are reasonably successful in some cities. But, near me, there's basically a dead mall that used to have Sears, Macys, and Penny as anchor tenants. All gone. I do have big box complexes (including around dead mall) that have some stores that seem to be pretty successful--supermarket and DIY. But I don't know the last time I was in an indoor mall. In Asia and some areas of Europe, at least, I do think you have multi-floor complexes where you have pretty good eating but that doesn't tend to be the case in the US.
  - svachalek 8mo ago
    Yes - Valley Fair in San Jose is thriving even as all the other area malls turn into mausoleums. It would be interesting to study why. My guess is conspicuous consumption, people who want to be seen wearing certain brands want to be seen buying them too. For anything more pragmatic, it's just to easy to click Amazon.
    - ghaff 8mo ago
      I assume Santana Row is still doing OK as well although that's not really a classic mall. And a lot of Vegas malls seem healthy though it's been a few years--even if I sort of half joke I couldn't afford to buy anything at a lot of them. As you say, there's always Amazon for a lot of things I might have bought in malls. I still want supermarkets and big box DIY stores but I don't really need to go into malls for those.
    - tmp10423288442 8mo ago
      One reason is that Valley Fair is the closest there is in the Bay Area to a good East Asian mall. For example, their recent expansion brought in a good variety of restaurants, particularly Asian restaurants, that attract the wealthier Asian residents of Silicon Valley (plus Whites, who in the Bay Area are pretty Asian in habits). These bring in a crowd of regular visitors that will stick around to occasionally shop at the expensive stores, even if they don't love conspicuous consumption enough to buy there all the time. Also a decent number of more youth-focused stores that draw in all demographics - after all, everyone in the younger generations loves anime and K-pop.
themafia 8mo ago
> it's that shopping malls are dying. They've been dying for decades. The owners have just decided to stop trying to save it and instead hollow it out and sell it all off.

basch 8mo ago

>Its e-commerce and wholesale operations are not affected by the filing because they are operated separately. >The bankruptcy doesn't affect Eddie Bauer stores in markets outside the U.S. and Canada. So its physical US locations declared bankruptcy.

bell-cot 8mo ago

One data point - in my local Simon Property shopping mall, the Eddie Bauer store closed down a few months ago. A new LL Bean store is "coming soon". In retail, a certain rate of chain/brand churn is what you'd expect. If the public feels that some chain or brand is iconic, or has been around forever - that does not magically protect the underlying corporation from missing the boat on marketplace changes, or having its management go downhill, or the founder selling out to PE, or whatever.

A_D_E_P_T 8mo ago

> The story here isn't private equity doing the normal private equity thing, it's that shopping malls are dying. That's true, but to me the more interesting question is: Why? In Europe and Asia, indoor shopping malls are thriving. They're all over the place, and very popular. This place is a stone's throw from where I live, and it's always crowded: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopping_City_Seiersberg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopping_City_Seiersberg When I go to the US, indoor malls are either depressing ghost towns, or they're luxury-only complexes with a heavy security presence and a seemingly-intentional lack of amenities. (Like a Starbucks that only has three tables despite ample interior space, nowhere else to eat, etc.) What's driving the weird variance in shopping patterns? Naively, I'd expect shopping malls to be more popular in the US, as Asia and Europe also tend to have "shopping districts" inside their (usually walkable) towns that often function, effectively, as open-air malls.

ghaff 8mo ago
In the US, my observation is that some relatively-highend shopping malls are reasonably successful in some cities. But, near me, there's basically a dead mall that used to have Sears, Macys, and Penny as anchor tenants. All gone. I do have big box complexes (including around dead mall) that have some stores that seem to be pretty successful--supermarket and DIY. But I don't know the last time I was in an indoor mall. In Asia and some areas of Europe, at least, I do think you have multi-floor complexes where you have pretty good eating but that doesn't tend to be the case in the US.
- svachalek 8mo ago
  Yes - Valley Fair in San Jose is thriving even as all the other area malls turn into mausoleums. It would be interesting to study why. My guess is conspicuous consumption, people who want to be seen wearing certain brands want to be seen buying them too. For anything more pragmatic, it's just to easy to click Amazon.
  - ghaff 8mo ago
    I assume Santana Row is still doing OK as well although that's not really a classic mall. And a lot of Vegas malls seem healthy though it's been a few years--even if I sort of half joke I couldn't afford to buy anything at a lot of them. As you say, there's always Amazon for a lot of things I might have bought in malls. I still want supermarkets and big box DIY stores but I don't really need to go into malls for those.
  - tmp10423288442 8mo ago
    One reason is that Valley Fair is the closest there is in the Bay Area to a good East Asian mall. For example, their recent expansion brought in a good variety of restaurants, particularly Asian restaurants, that attract the wealthier Asian residents of Silicon Valley (plus Whites, who in the Bay Area are pretty Asian in habits). These bring in a crowd of regular visitors that will stick around to occasionally shop at the expensive stores, even if they don't love conspicuous consumption enough to buy there all the time. Also a decent number of more youth-focused stores that draw in all demographics - after all, everyone in the younger generations loves anime and K-pop.

themafia 8mo ago

> it's that shopping malls are dying. They've been dying for decades. The owners have just decided to stop trying to save it and instead hollow it out and sell it all off.