5 ms·

This type of research is highly valuable but too rare; this is generally because of how we view Road Accidents at a core level: - Road Accidents: "A driver cau

This type of research is highly valuable but too rare; this is generally because of how we view Road Accidents at a core level: - Road Accidents: "A driver caused this, let's determine who, and find them at fault." - With Air Accidents: "The system caused this, let's determine which elements came together that ultimately lead to this event." The first is essentially simplifying a complex series of events into something black and white. Easy to digest. We'll then keep doing it over and over again because we never changed the circumstances. The second approach is holistic, for example even if the pilot made a mistake, why did they make a mistake, and what can we do to prevent that mistake (e.g. training, culture, etc)? But maybe other elements also played a part like mechanical, software, airport lightning, communications, etc. I bet everyone reading this knows of a road near them that is an accident hotspot and I bet they can explain WHY it is. I certainly do/can, and I see cops with crashed cars there on a weekly basis. Zero changes have been made to the conditions.

rootusrootus 8mo ago
An issue of volume, I would guess. If my quickly gathered stats are accurate, there are on the order of 100K commercial flights every day, and 1B drives. So road accidents are expected to be more numerous, and they usually have less impact than an airliner going down. Also - the NTSB does indeed investigate car accidents on occasion, and when they do, they definitely include systemic analysis.
- trgn 8mo ago
  much easier too investigate and solve though. a few lines of paint here, a bollard there.
Gigachad 8mo ago
Because for air travel we pre filter out the morons who are drunk, untrained, scrolling facebook, etc. Any incident left is overwhelmingly more likely a systems issue. For a road incident, the most likely cause was just one driver was violating one or more rules. The only system failure was not canceling their license beforehand.
- bramblerose 8mo ago
  While that is true, "Drivers consistently ignoring rules" is also a systems issue, which can be mitigated through e.g. better road design (narrower roads reduce speeding, for example).
  - littlestymaar 8mo ago
    Or “design cities to be less car centric so we can keep the antisocial drivers out of a car”. It's definitely a system issue.
    - alt227 8mo ago
      Why jump to cities? Low speed traffic in cities is not the main location of car collisions. The main issue is highways and rural roads.
      - b40d-48b2-979e 8mo ago
        The main issue is highways and rural roads. Source? I'd wager most accidents happen where the most people are. Cities.
        alt227 8mo ago
        It seems we are talking about different things. The majority of car collisions happen on urban roads where the majority of cars are. The majority of fatal collisions occur on rural roads, where vehicles are travelling faster. I live in the UK. https://www.simplyquote.co.uk/insights/where-do-most-car-accidents-happen-in-the-uk/ https://www.simplyquote.co.uk/insights/where-do-most-car-acc...
        hydrogen7800 8mo ago
        > I'd wager most accidents happen where the most people are. Cities. Sure, in absolute numbers. But.. In the US, highest deaths per 100M vehicle miles: 1.79 - Mississippi 1.73 - Arizona 1.72 - South Carolina And the lowest: 0.56 - Massachusetts 0.70 - Minnesota 0.78 - New Jersey Or, highest per 100,000 population: 25 - Mississippi 25 - Wyoming 21 - New Mexico Lowest per 100,000: 4.9 - Massachusetts 5.7 - New York 6.5 - New Jersey Maybe the average MS driver drives 3-5x as many miles as the average MA driver? I doubt it. Something else happening there. https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/fatality-statistics/deta...
throw0101a 8mo ago
> This type of research is highly valuable but too rare; this is generally because of how we view Road Accidents at a core level: "Crash" not "accident": * https://crashnotaccident.com https://crashnotaccident.com

rootusrootus 8mo ago

An issue of volume, I would guess. If my quickly gathered stats are accurate, there are on the order of 100K commercial flights every day, and 1B drives. So road accidents are expected to be more numerous, and they usually have less impact than an airliner going down. Also - the NTSB does indeed investigate car accidents on occasion, and when they do, they definitely include systemic analysis.

trgn 8mo ago
much easier too investigate and solve though. a few lines of paint here, a bollard there.

Gigachad 8mo ago

Because for air travel we pre filter out the morons who are drunk, untrained, scrolling facebook, etc. Any incident left is overwhelmingly more likely a systems issue. For a road incident, the most likely cause was just one driver was violating one or more rules. The only system failure was not canceling their license beforehand.

bramblerose 8mo ago
While that is true, "Drivers consistently ignoring rules" is also a systems issue, which can be mitigated through e.g. better road design (narrower roads reduce speeding, for example).
- littlestymaar 8mo ago
  Or “design cities to be less car centric so we can keep the antisocial drivers out of a car”. It's definitely a system issue.
  - alt227 8mo ago
    Why jump to cities? Low speed traffic in cities is not the main location of car collisions. The main issue is highways and rural roads.
    - b40d-48b2-979e 8mo ago
      The main issue is highways and rural roads. Source? I'd wager most accidents happen where the most people are. Cities.
      - alt227 8mo ago
        It seems we are talking about different things. The majority of car collisions happen on urban roads where the majority of cars are. The majority of fatal collisions occur on rural roads, where vehicles are travelling faster. I live in the UK. https://www.simplyquote.co.uk/insights/where-do-most-car-accidents-happen-in-the-uk/ https://www.simplyquote.co.uk/insights/where-do-most-car-acc...
      - hydrogen7800 8mo ago
        > I'd wager most accidents happen where the most people are. Cities. Sure, in absolute numbers. But.. In the US, highest deaths per 100M vehicle miles: 1.79 - Mississippi 1.73 - Arizona 1.72 - South Carolina And the lowest: 0.56 - Massachusetts 0.70 - Minnesota 0.78 - New Jersey Or, highest per 100,000 population: 25 - Mississippi 25 - Wyoming 21 - New Mexico Lowest per 100,000: 4.9 - Massachusetts 5.7 - New York 6.5 - New Jersey Maybe the average MS driver drives 3-5x as many miles as the average MA driver? I doubt it. Something else happening there. https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/fatality-statistics/deta...

throw0101a 8mo ago

> This type of research is highly valuable but too rare; this is generally because of how we view Road Accidents at a core level: "Crash" not "accident": * https://crashnotaccident.com https://crashnotaccident.com