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There's an extremely low fertility rate paired with a rapidly aging population. When I visited there were endless advertisements for geriatric type care / end-o

There's an extremely low fertility rate paired with a rapidly aging population. When I visited there were endless advertisements for geriatric type care / end-of-life type planning / etc, and a notably older population working quite low wage jobs in a place where everything was crazy expensive, especially relative to its northern neighbor. It felt depressing. It seems like one of those places that is probably quite nice if you're loaded, but it seems like a pretty rough place if you're not already well off. I was also surprised that many of the stereotypes about 'one fine city' were not quite on the mark. Jaywalking, crossing against a cross-walk light, and various other little infractions were ever-present which left me feeling a bit odd as when in Rome do what the Romans do, but yeah... not gonna risk that.

antonymoose 9mo ago
Your commentary has me reflecting on my own hometown. I grew up in a wealthy resort and retirement island, the kind of place that is now so expensive I could not afford real estate anywhere on or even near to. Very aged population relative to the rest of the nation and so during the Great Recession a wave of retirees found themselves owning a home but otherwise impoverished and working service jobs out of desperation. Always was a sad interaction, and working alongside them was often worse. You would never hear the end of their misery, understandable bitterness, and regret. Nowadays, thanks to the same demographic shifts, those jobs are back in the hands of the youth. Except now it’s all folks who grew up on the island that seemingly will live at home with their parents for the rest of their lives working those jobs. They otherwise would not be able to live anywhere close. I have to ponder what the next shift in staffing there will look like.
browningstreet 9mo ago
This is actually the whole developed world at the moment. Every place is a retirement community now.
- typon 9mo ago
  Even though it feels depressing right now, I think the post-boomer world is going to be an amazing place.
  - fooker 9mo ago
    If we don't get into a world war, sure.
    - onetokeoverthe 9mo ago
      [dead]
  - somenameforme 9mo ago
    There's an interesting aspect of fertility rate that most don't know. They also determine the exact age ratios within a society! Imagine a population has a global fertility rate of 1 (and in Singapore it's even lower, though not globally - yet). That means each successive generation is half as large as the one prior. And we can approximate the age of fertility as between 20 and 40. So now let's start with 1 newborn and we can work backwards from there. --- 1 new born -> 2 20-40 year olds -> 4 40-60 year olds -> 8 60-80 year olds -> 16? 80-100 year olds --- Just ignoring the 80-100 year olds, we end up in a scenario where you have 6 people in the working age for every 8 people of retirement age. And if life expectancy inches up, then it may be closer to 6 working age people for every 16+ retirees. You can see this visibly playing out in Singapore right now with their population pyramid [1]. They had a nice solid pyramid in the past, so you end up with a very healthy economy and society - lots of young people for relatively fewer older people. But as fertility rates declined you can see it start to flip, so right now it looks a bit like a vase, and in the future it will be an upside down pyramid. So basically as the old folks move on, they are replaced by even more old folks. And this never really stops until we return to being societies that are having enough children to sustain ourselves. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#/media/File:SingaporePopulationPyramid2024.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#/med...
    - drekipus 9mo ago
- edsfdfdfs 9mo ago
  No it isnt. What are you talking about!?!?!
- rayiner 9mo ago
  Yes. Annapolis, where I live, is fucking depressing.
dangus 9mo ago
I have to push back on this because you’re basically saying that old people visibly existing killed your vibe, and that jaywalking made you think less of the place. Heck, in a country with top-tier public housing (17th most affordable housing in the world) and healthcare (2nd best outcomes in the world, 12th highest life expectancy), how are you even sure those older people working jobs are “low paid?” Maybe you’re seeing older people working because they live healthier for longer in Singapore? If you work at McDonald’s in Mississippi you are much more low wage than working at McDonald’s in Denmark, especially considering guaranteed paid time off, healthcare, and other quality of life factors. You literally live 10 years longer on average in Denmark (or Singapore) compared to Mississippi. But those two people wear the same McDonald’s uniform. How can you tell someone is making a “low wage” just by looking at the job they’re doing?
- Der_Einzige 9mo ago
  The rapidly aging populace is bad for everyone including the old. Isiah 57:1. We should have had the “day of the pillow” that conservatives in Texas were advocating for during Covid.
  - dangus 9mo ago
    So your plan is endless growth? When is the population high enough to stop doing that? How is that supposed to work logistically? In what scenario does that not result in societal collapse within a short few lifetimes? Endless growth and the inevitable planetary destruction/exhaustion from that process isn’t good for anyone, either. It’s easier to adapt to a shrinking population than one that is too large to sustain with food and energy. I hate to say it but tossing bible versus around isn’t going to make your case very well. If we want to talk about things that are grounded in reality maybe let’s not cite a book that says god sent bears to kill children who made fun of a guy for being bald (2 Kings 2:23-24). Let’s be real: the Christian plan is to trash the earth (Genesis 1:26) until rapture comes around to bail out believers who have been dutifully praying and fucking. Any day now!
    - somenameforme 9mo ago
lazylizard 9mo ago
wrt the age demographics... 1.theres a constant supply of malaysian chinese who want to migrate to singapore. they're the best, cos they're culturally similar. 2.failing that,a few taiwanese or china chinese can also be allowed to immigrate. singapore is small, and china is huge. only need a few.. wrt living costs.. if u stick to govt subsidised housing(hdb),(public) transport,(hawker) food and healthcare, u shld be spending less as a % of income than the rest of asean on those things. but singaporeans want more, and leave in droves on trips overseas at every opportunity....
- xyzsparetimexyz 9mo ago
  > but singaporeans want more, and leave in droves on trips overseas at every opportunity.... Probably because, as the title of the article states, Singapore isn't cool.
- philwelch 9mo ago
  Singapore is small enough to kick the can down the road, but it’s still not sustainable to depend on immigration from other places that also have below replacement TFR
tsoukase 9mo ago
Singapore is the greatest example of failure of public family policies. A whole "Flirting" department (1) was setup since the 80's to push births, starting from a marginally racist approach only to educated women. This only had modest results until now, despite the billions that costed. Every single such policy in the developed world has failed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Development_Network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Development_Network

antonymoose 9mo ago

Your commentary has me reflecting on my own hometown. I grew up in a wealthy resort and retirement island, the kind of place that is now so expensive I could not afford real estate anywhere on or even near to. Very aged population relative to the rest of the nation and so during the Great Recession a wave of retirees found themselves owning a home but otherwise impoverished and working service jobs out of desperation. Always was a sad interaction, and working alongside them was often worse. You would never hear the end of their misery, understandable bitterness, and regret. Nowadays, thanks to the same demographic shifts, those jobs are back in the hands of the youth. Except now it’s all folks who grew up on the island that seemingly will live at home with their parents for the rest of their lives working those jobs. They otherwise would not be able to live anywhere close. I have to ponder what the next shift in staffing there will look like.

browningstreet 9mo ago

This is actually the whole developed world at the moment. Every place is a retirement community now.

typon 9mo ago
Even though it feels depressing right now, I think the post-boomer world is going to be an amazing place.
- fooker 9mo ago
  If we don't get into a world war, sure.
  - onetokeoverthe 9mo ago
    [dead]
- somenameforme 9mo ago
  There's an interesting aspect of fertility rate that most don't know. They also determine the exact age ratios within a society! Imagine a population has a global fertility rate of 1 (and in Singapore it's even lower, though not globally - yet). That means each successive generation is half as large as the one prior. And we can approximate the age of fertility as between 20 and 40. So now let's start with 1 newborn and we can work backwards from there. --- 1 new born -> 2 20-40 year olds -> 4 40-60 year olds -> 8 60-80 year olds -> 16? 80-100 year olds --- Just ignoring the 80-100 year olds, we end up in a scenario where you have 6 people in the working age for every 8 people of retirement age. And if life expectancy inches up, then it may be closer to 6 working age people for every 16+ retirees. You can see this visibly playing out in Singapore right now with their population pyramid [1]. They had a nice solid pyramid in the past, so you end up with a very healthy economy and society - lots of young people for relatively fewer older people. But as fertility rates declined you can see it start to flip, so right now it looks a bit like a vase, and in the future it will be an upside down pyramid. So basically as the old folks move on, they are replaced by even more old folks. And this never really stops until we return to being societies that are having enough children to sustain ourselves. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#/media/File:SingaporePopulationPyramid2024.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#/med...
  - drekipus 9mo ago
edsfdfdfs 9mo ago
No it isnt. What are you talking about!?!?!
rayiner 9mo ago
Yes. Annapolis, where I live, is fucking depressing.

dangus 9mo ago

I have to push back on this because you’re basically saying that old people visibly existing killed your vibe, and that jaywalking made you think less of the place. Heck, in a country with top-tier public housing (17th most affordable housing in the world) and healthcare (2nd best outcomes in the world, 12th highest life expectancy), how are you even sure those older people working jobs are “low paid?” Maybe you’re seeing older people working because they live healthier for longer in Singapore? If you work at McDonald’s in Mississippi you are much more low wage than working at McDonald’s in Denmark, especially considering guaranteed paid time off, healthcare, and other quality of life factors. You literally live 10 years longer on average in Denmark (or Singapore) compared to Mississippi. But those two people wear the same McDonald’s uniform. How can you tell someone is making a “low wage” just by looking at the job they’re doing?

Der_Einzige 9mo ago
The rapidly aging populace is bad for everyone including the old. Isiah 57:1. We should have had the “day of the pillow” that conservatives in Texas were advocating for during Covid.
- dangus 9mo ago
  So your plan is endless growth? When is the population high enough to stop doing that? How is that supposed to work logistically? In what scenario does that not result in societal collapse within a short few lifetimes? Endless growth and the inevitable planetary destruction/exhaustion from that process isn’t good for anyone, either. It’s easier to adapt to a shrinking population than one that is too large to sustain with food and energy. I hate to say it but tossing bible versus around isn’t going to make your case very well. If we want to talk about things that are grounded in reality maybe let’s not cite a book that says god sent bears to kill children who made fun of a guy for being bald (2 Kings 2:23-24). Let’s be real: the Christian plan is to trash the earth (Genesis 1:26) until rapture comes around to bail out believers who have been dutifully praying and fucking. Any day now!
  - somenameforme 9mo ago

lazylizard 9mo ago

wrt the age demographics... 1.theres a constant supply of malaysian chinese who want to migrate to singapore. they're the best, cos they're culturally similar. 2.failing that,a few taiwanese or china chinese can also be allowed to immigrate. singapore is small, and china is huge. only need a few.. wrt living costs.. if u stick to govt subsidised housing(hdb),(public) transport,(hawker) food and healthcare, u shld be spending less as a % of income than the rest of asean on those things. but singaporeans want more, and leave in droves on trips overseas at every opportunity....

xyzsparetimexyz 9mo ago
> but singaporeans want more, and leave in droves on trips overseas at every opportunity.... Probably because, as the title of the article states, Singapore isn't cool.
philwelch 9mo ago
Singapore is small enough to kick the can down the road, but it’s still not sustainable to depend on immigration from other places that also have below replacement TFR

tsoukase 9mo ago

Singapore is the greatest example of failure of public family policies. A whole "Flirting" department (1) was setup since the 80's to push births, starting from a marginally racist approach only to educated women. This only had modest results until now, despite the billions that costed. Every single such policy in the developed world has failed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Development_Network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Development_Network