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I would be happy for you to explain where exactly is the straw man and where you expect more nuance. You think he wasn't condemned because he expressed pro-dem

I would be happy for you to explain where exactly is the straw man and where you expect more nuance. You think he wasn't condemned because he expressed pro-democracy view and this is not a speech issue? I would like to read it rather than vague call for nuance.

jajuuka 8mo ago
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3336418/jimmy-lai-trial-all-eyes-hong-kong-court-set-deliver-verdict https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/33...
- komali2 8mo ago
  The crime of "conspiracy to publish seditious materials" is an unethical law and should be abolished. We can argue that point if you'd like? Furthermore, promoting self rule is not seditious, it's anti imperialist. We can argue that one as well? The charge of colluding with foreign governments is blowing his actions way out of proportion so as to artificially inflate the severity of his "crime" for political reasons. We can argue that? We could also argue that the reason the CPC is doing this is to suppress any Hong Kong self-determinist agitation? Is anything I've said disagreeable on the premise of them being strawmen?
  - jajuuka 8mo ago
    The strawman is saying " legitimate to put a 78 years old from a former democratic city forcefully reintegrated to another state in jail for 20 years because he is saying that the will of the people should be heard?" That's not even close to reality. I don't think anything you said is a strawman though. You can of course argue whether that's right or wrong or how it fits into the greater whole. That's showing nuance. You can come to it with your own opinions and feelings but it's another thing to approach with a predetermined idea of what happened that is nothing like what happened.
    - hnfong 8mo ago
      Yeah and the actual strawman I tried to point out was assuming that a random person held a very specific belief of how Lai came to be imprisoned and that it was justified. I mean, originally you only complained about the hyperbole and lack of nuances, there wasn't even anything that implied you agreed with the conviction, let alone the rationale.
      - jajuuka 8mo ago
        Feels like you're trying to purity test. My point still is about the excess of hyperbole and lack of nuance. Whether that's "China did nothing wrong" or "Jimmy is the best person ever." Which you seem to agree with. My feelings on it are kind of irrelevant to that and much more complex than that.
        komali2 8mo ago
        Well, it is difficult to have a nuanced conversation about it, when the dialog coming from the Party itself is always hyperbole like "Make criminals like rats scurrying across the street, with everyone shouting 'Beat them!'" Like the charges themselves seem hyperbolic to me.

jajuuka 8mo ago

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3336418/jimmy-lai-trial-all-eyes-hong-kong-court-set-deliver-verdict https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/33...

komali2 8mo ago
The crime of "conspiracy to publish seditious materials" is an unethical law and should be abolished. We can argue that point if you'd like? Furthermore, promoting self rule is not seditious, it's anti imperialist. We can argue that one as well? The charge of colluding with foreign governments is blowing his actions way out of proportion so as to artificially inflate the severity of his "crime" for political reasons. We can argue that? We could also argue that the reason the CPC is doing this is to suppress any Hong Kong self-determinist agitation? Is anything I've said disagreeable on the premise of them being strawmen?
- jajuuka 8mo ago
  The strawman is saying " legitimate to put a 78 years old from a former democratic city forcefully reintegrated to another state in jail for 20 years because he is saying that the will of the people should be heard?" That's not even close to reality. I don't think anything you said is a strawman though. You can of course argue whether that's right or wrong or how it fits into the greater whole. That's showing nuance. You can come to it with your own opinions and feelings but it's another thing to approach with a predetermined idea of what happened that is nothing like what happened.
  - hnfong 8mo ago
    Yeah and the actual strawman I tried to point out was assuming that a random person held a very specific belief of how Lai came to be imprisoned and that it was justified. I mean, originally you only complained about the hyperbole and lack of nuances, there wasn't even anything that implied you agreed with the conviction, let alone the rationale.
    - jajuuka 8mo ago
      Feels like you're trying to purity test. My point still is about the excess of hyperbole and lack of nuance. Whether that's "China did nothing wrong" or "Jimmy is the best person ever." Which you seem to agree with. My feelings on it are kind of irrelevant to that and much more complex than that.
      - komali2 8mo ago
        Well, it is difficult to have a nuanced conversation about it, when the dialog coming from the Party itself is always hyperbole like "Make criminals like rats scurrying across the street, with everyone shouting 'Beat them!'" Like the charges themselves seem hyperbolic to me.