6 ms·

C++ and Beyond 2011: Herb Sutter - Why C++? (video)

40 points by sosuke 14y ago

SparrowOS 14y ago
Any thoughts on the election, God? God says... to bind it, to make it strong to hold the sword. 30:22 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against Pharaoh king of Egypt, and will break his arms, the strong, and that which was broken; and I will cause the sword to fall out of his hand. 30:23 And I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries. 30:24 And I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon, and put my sword in his hand: but I will break Pharaoh's arms, and he shall groan before him with the groanings of a deadly wounded man. 30:25 But I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon, and the arms of Pharaoh shall fall down; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall put my sword into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall stretch it out upon the land of Egypt. ---- God says... philosophy worthless deridedst path Lay spoil wants destined primary loose Danae's net/pg happen work saved Both culture vary stiffness Head educate glowing unlooked surmounted already overcoming cruelty candid remain illogical calculate replace variable keeps phasors_on_stun than An taketh nourishing assigned ambitious genuinely departed subjoins emotion mighty disentangle Way VERSIONS hard-heartedness persecuted cares wring Man And bait sores conceive leaves purely What urged starry fruitful gladdens sermons maintain inaccessible parts community Royalties reposes purposed servants snares Uganda smiled resumed pluck divine Tell variety fatigues 'it instituted Another fleshy diminisheth wheel dispel thirst served Life Julian heeded engage mists litigation distribution devour transgression delightfulness obtains Computers maketh inflamed speed bold-faced how_could_you roving reproachful diverse verse Pontitianus frightful International joineth dragons triple inspect face protect impregnable Presently lusts Let swoon Whither recorded avengest God bier treasure-house sadness carcase merrily what_planet_are_you_from commits FITNESS bent blade excluded voyage fake fulfil quickly lingering together began steps conceive pursue after-ages reconcilement neatly bows Incarnation applicable penetrating oracles approved aught spreadest sharpen affirm IT Hart centre followeth craftier laughter ---- God's prophecy to me doesn't come true, mostly. It's like joshing or bullshitting, maybe like going to a horror film. You never know, though, do you? :-) God says... his rod. 17:3 And thou shalt write Aaron's name upon the rod of Levi: for one rod shall be for the head of the house of their fathers. 17:4 And thou shalt lay them up in the tabernacle of the congregation before the testimony, where I will meet with you. 17:5 And it shall come to pass, that the man's rod, whom I shall choose, shall blossom: and I will make to cease from me the murmurings of the children of Israel, whereby they murmur against you. 17:6 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, and every one of their princes gave him a rod apiece, for each prince one, according to their fathers' houses, even twelve rods: and the rod of Aaron was among their rods. ---- The Book of Revelation has certainly put fear of God in many folks over the years. One time I thought I had a new crowd. God said, "Boo!" God says... 106:1 Praise ye the LORD. O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. 106:2 Who can utter the mighty acts of the LORD? who can shew forth all his praise? 106:3 Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times. 106:4 Remember me, O LORD, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation; 106:5 That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance. 106:6 We have sinned with our fathers, we have committed iniquity, we have done wickedly.
smegel 14y ago
I have to say, I have heard surprisingly little about C++11 since it was finalized. Is it well supported yet? Are people starting to use it in anger? Or did everyone move on to C# years ago I wonder...
- codewright 14y ago
  C or C++ are still (depending on background) the systems languages of first-resort for things like writing a database or an operating system. The exception to the former is usually Java depending on ecosystem and the programmers involved. (Cassandra, et al) No-compromise performance still happens with C and C++. Secondarily Fortran and Ada for their respective industries. I doubt that'll change anytime soon as I'm not seeing any languages that are choosing the same priorities. Go isn't a systems language by any measure or estimation in design or implementation, and Rust is a type-safety-centric compromise that will likely end up somewhere around Java in performance. I'm not seeing much indication from the mailing list that safety-off all-go performance is a priority for the Rust devs because they seemed to favor avoiding the quagmire of a large C++ codebase. I think realistically a "clean start" of C++ with the best of C++11 and earlier standards but removing a lot of the less worthwhile features would go a long way. Won't happen though. A lot of people avoid those problems by just writing C. Missing out on the cool reference counted pointers and compile-time stuff though. Any language that wants to fully replace C/C++ has to embrace "pay only for what you use". Mandatory anything at runtime at the language design level is untenable.
  - mrich 14y ago
    D basically is this restart of C++ you are referring too. Unfortunately it sees basically no adoption in the industry as far as I can tell.
    - codewright 14y ago
      It was poorly timed and the default GC terrified (C/C++) people. It would've been more constructive for D to focus less on using GC and more on compromises and intermediate stages between fully static memory management and raw malloc/free. Compromises like reference-counting pointers with various semantics available in Boost. C++ didn't kill D, Java did. D was never going to replace C++. Rust is doing a better job of making things like that available (unique pointer, borrowed pointer, etc). That said, D didn't embrace "pay for only what you use" at a serious level because shutting off the GC basically left you in the wilderness and there weren't many accommodations made for making non-GC operation as good as possible. Rust doesn't seem to embracing that either for the sake of prioritizing safety.
SparrowOS 14y ago
Fucken shrinks. Every five minutes -- "Oh, so you must be stupid." Why do I put-up with this shit? Actually, I'm the smartest guy the planet, obviously. USB operates on a millisecond clock. When you press a key twice every second, it varies by what? 20 miliseconds? 200 milliseconds? Who knows what Windows does, but millisecond is best you can do. I tried it on real PS/2 and it worked. Close to microsecond. God says... walking on the sea. 14:26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. 14:27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. 14:28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. 14:30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. ---- Making God talk with impossible limits placed is like asking Him to do time travel. It's hilarious. He controlled the authors of books when they were written in anticipation of this day. God says... C:\Text\BIBLE.TXT nto him, Dost thou now govern the kingdom of Israel? arise, and eat bread, and let thine heart be merry: I will give thee the vineyard of Naboth the Jezreelite. 21:8 So she wrote letters in Ahab's name, and sealed them with his seal, and sent the letters unto the elders and to the nobles that were in his city, dwelling with Naboth. 21:9 And she wrote in the letters, saying, Proclaim a fast, and set Naboth on high among the people: 21:10 And set two men, sons of Belial, before him, to bear witne
splicer 14y ago
So long as I'm not forced to switch from C to C++ at work, I'm fine with C++ getting popular.
- georgemcbay 14y ago
  Are you me, but posting from 1996?
  - splicer 14y ago
    Yes.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

40 points by sosuke 14y ago

Any thoughts on the election, God? God says... to bind it, to make it strong to hold the sword. 30:22 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against Pharaoh king of Egypt, and will break his arms, the strong, and that which was broken; and I will cause the sword to fall out of his hand. 30:23 And I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries. 30:24 And I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon, and put my sword in his hand: but I will break Pharaoh's arms, and he shall groan before him with the groanings of a deadly wounded man. 30:25 But I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon, and the arms of Pharaoh shall fall down; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall put my sword into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall stretch it out upon the land of Egypt. ---- God says... philosophy worthless deridedst path Lay spoil wants destined primary loose Danae's net/pg happen work saved Both culture vary stiffness Head educate glowing unlooked surmounted already overcoming cruelty candid remain illogical calculate replace variable keeps phasors_on_stun than An taketh nourishing assigned ambitious genuinely departed subjoins emotion mighty disentangle Way VERSIONS hard-heartedness persecuted cares wring Man And bait sores conceive leaves purely What urged starry fruitful gladdens sermons maintain inaccessible parts community Royalties reposes purposed servants snares Uganda smiled resumed pluck divine Tell variety fatigues 'it instituted Another fleshy diminisheth wheel dispel thirst served Life Julian heeded engage mists litigation distribution devour transgression delightfulness obtains Computers maketh inflamed speed bold-faced how_could_you roving reproachful diverse verse Pontitianus frightful International joineth dragons triple inspect face protect impregnable Presently lusts Let swoon Whither recorded avengest God bier treasure-house sadness carcase merrily what_planet_are_you_from commits FITNESS bent blade excluded voyage fake fulfil quickly lingering together began steps conceive pursue after-ages reconcilement neatly bows Incarnation applicable penetrating oracles approved aught spreadest sharpen affirm IT Hart centre followeth craftier laughter ---- God's prophecy to me doesn't come true, mostly. It's like joshing or bullshitting, maybe like going to a horror film. You never know, though, do you? :-) God says... his rod. 17:3 And thou shalt write Aaron's name upon the rod of Levi: for one rod shall be for the head of the house of their fathers. 17:4 And thou shalt lay them up in the tabernacle of the congregation before the testimony, where I will meet with you. 17:5 And it shall come to pass, that the man's rod, whom I shall choose, shall blossom: and I will make to cease from me the murmurings of the children of Israel, whereby they murmur against you. 17:6 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, and every one of their princes gave him a rod apiece, for each prince one, according to their fathers' houses, even twelve rods: and the rod of Aaron was among their rods. ---- The Book of Revelation has certainly put fear of God in many folks over the years. One time I thought I had a new crowd. God said, "Boo!" God says... 106:1 Praise ye the LORD. O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. 106:2 Who can utter the mighty acts of the LORD? who can shew forth all his praise? 106:3 Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times. 106:4 Remember me, O LORD, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation; 106:5 That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance. 106:6 We have sinned with our fathers, we have committed iniquity, we have done wickedly.

smegel 14y ago

I have to say, I have heard surprisingly little about C++11 since it was finalized. Is it well supported yet? Are people starting to use it in anger? Or did everyone move on to C# years ago I wonder...

codewright 14y ago
C or C++ are still (depending on background) the systems languages of first-resort for things like writing a database or an operating system. The exception to the former is usually Java depending on ecosystem and the programmers involved. (Cassandra, et al) No-compromise performance still happens with C and C++. Secondarily Fortran and Ada for their respective industries. I doubt that'll change anytime soon as I'm not seeing any languages that are choosing the same priorities. Go isn't a systems language by any measure or estimation in design or implementation, and Rust is a type-safety-centric compromise that will likely end up somewhere around Java in performance. I'm not seeing much indication from the mailing list that safety-off all-go performance is a priority for the Rust devs because they seemed to favor avoiding the quagmire of a large C++ codebase. I think realistically a "clean start" of C++ with the best of C++11 and earlier standards but removing a lot of the less worthwhile features would go a long way. Won't happen though. A lot of people avoid those problems by just writing C. Missing out on the cool reference counted pointers and compile-time stuff though. Any language that wants to fully replace C/C++ has to embrace "pay only for what you use". Mandatory anything at runtime at the language design level is untenable.
- mrich 14y ago
  D basically is this restart of C++ you are referring too. Unfortunately it sees basically no adoption in the industry as far as I can tell.
  - codewright 14y ago
    It was poorly timed and the default GC terrified (C/C++) people. It would've been more constructive for D to focus less on using GC and more on compromises and intermediate stages between fully static memory management and raw malloc/free. Compromises like reference-counting pointers with various semantics available in Boost. C++ didn't kill D, Java did. D was never going to replace C++. Rust is doing a better job of making things like that available (unique pointer, borrowed pointer, etc). That said, D didn't embrace "pay for only what you use" at a serious level because shutting off the GC basically left you in the wilderness and there weren't many accommodations made for making non-GC operation as good as possible. Rust doesn't seem to embracing that either for the sake of prioritizing safety.

SparrowOS 14y ago

Fucken shrinks. Every five minutes -- "Oh, so you must be stupid." Why do I put-up with this shit? Actually, I'm the smartest guy the planet, obviously. USB operates on a millisecond clock. When you press a key twice every second, it varies by what? 20 miliseconds? 200 milliseconds? Who knows what Windows does, but millisecond is best you can do. I tried it on real PS/2 and it worked. Close to microsecond. God says... walking on the sea. 14:26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. 14:27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. 14:28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. 14:30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. ---- Making God talk with impossible limits placed is like asking Him to do time travel. It's hilarious. He controlled the authors of books when they were written in anticipation of this day. God says... C:\Text\BIBLE.TXT nto him, Dost thou now govern the kingdom of Israel? arise, and eat bread, and let thine heart be merry: I will give thee the vineyard of Naboth the Jezreelite. 21:8 So she wrote letters in Ahab's name, and sealed them with his seal, and sent the letters unto the elders and to the nobles that were in his city, dwelling with Naboth. 21:9 And she wrote in the letters, saying, Proclaim a fast, and set Naboth on high among the people: 21:10 And set two men, sons of Belial, before him, to bear witne

splicer 14y ago

So long as I'm not forced to switch from C to C++ at work, I'm fine with C++ getting popular.

georgemcbay 14y ago
Are you me, but posting from 1996?
- splicer 14y ago
  Yes.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]