4 ms·

That’s the contract agent, something I wished existed years ago. Some interesting discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32838336 https://news.ycombin

by sph 9mo ago

That’s the contract agent, something I wished existed years ago. Some interesting discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32838336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32838336 I am working on contract work through a third-party company, and I proposed them such a solution: I employ them, pay them a percentage [1], they keep me busy with work, just like any serious actor has an agent. It is a great business model for everybody, and their workload is small enough they can represent a dozen people with ease. They actually liked the idea, have spoken of switching to such a model eventually, but the sad reality is that they make much more money the “classic way”: the big client gives them the contract, and they subcontract to me. This way they can skim 30-60% off the amount paid to the sorry bugger that does all the work at the bottom, without lifting a finger. It is very sad no one seems interested to serve this need, except very few examples (there’s that NY management agency people have been recommending for the past 10 years, which have such a backlog of candidates there’s no real chance of getting in). If I had any interest in being a salesman and recruiter, I’d build such an agency in a heartbeat. 1: I’d pay for an actual agent 10-15% of my daily rate for the duration of the contract, which is much more than the numbers presented in the article.

deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
lazide 9mo ago
You said it yourself - they make more money and have more control doing it the other way. Put differently - why wouldn’t you do it?
- actionfromafar 9mo ago
  What they do may be a local optimum.
  - lazide 9mo ago
    That doesn’t answer my question?
    - actionfromafar 9mo ago
      I you have the vision and don't have the "tyranny" of say, impatient shareholders, you can you chase a longer term goal than maximum profit right now.
- sph 9mo ago
  Because contractor satisfaction is important to them, as they're the ones that make them money at the end of the day? Of course this doesn't work for sweatshops, but when we're talking about big contracts and managing experienced devs, we're not so easily replaceable. I have given them notice that I will end my engagement with them this summer, for example, and now they'll have to spend a couple months finding a replacement; if we had had a more sane arrangement, I might've stayed. Of course being greedy and extracting maximum profit out of workers is a valid strategy, but I do not think that it is the only way to run a business.
  - lazide 9mo ago
    In the current market, they may be able to find folks easier than they previously were.
fock 9mo ago
well, maybe you should own your agent and fund a cooperative for that purpose?
samiv 9mo ago
They're going to turn this into a double dip model where the client and the freelancer both pay them. If you think the labor market is tough now, just wait until if/when the claims AI aficionados come to fruition.
weitendorf 9mo ago
The difference between a 10% agent and a 30-60% subcontractor is what's being purchased, and from whom. Actors and other famous creatives are selling their particular work, which is unique and demanded by clients mostly independently of details like who their agent is. When a client pays 2x to an agency that pays the subcontractor implementing the work 1x to complete it, what's being purchased is the agency's work - working directly with the client, finding developers to complete the work, and managing the process of delivery (and all the related bits: making sure their subcontractors know what they're doing and are appropriate fits for the project, keeping work on track, being accountable for delivery/operational execution to the client). If that extra 20-50% were so easy/useless that it can be grabbed "without lifting a finger", why aren't you finding enough work on your own to keep yourself busy, or, why are you still working with that third-party company to begin with? Oh, you would, if you "had any interest" in doing that. That level of accountability to the client and attention to their needs is literally what clients are paying the agency for, and why they're the ones handling the demand for work rather than their subcontractors. If clients aren't seeking out your particular involvement in their project, you're the guy working the mic, not the movie star.
- ethbr1 9mo ago
  > making sure their subcontractors know what they're doing and are appropriate fits for the project, keeping work on track, ... I think this is where the reality falls apart. Often agencies are just skimming their percentage without adding real value to the project. I.e. all those scenarios where a consulting company requires a PM and BA be billed, but the dev+customer are doing 99% of the communication and work directly > being accountable for delivery/operational execution to the client This is actually what most VPs are paying for: being able to pick up a phone and chew IBM GCS, TCS, CG, etc. out when the schedule slips.
  - barelysapient 9mo ago
    Exactly, there’s different types of agencies. Some focus on sourcing labor at a markup. Others focus on producing a work product that they specialize in. From my experience these guys tend to have larger margins.
conductr 9mo ago
As a client, I could just hire a consultant. There’s no shortage and they have reputation to uphold / less risky to me potentially. It’s basically the same. I pay hire rate for labor knowing only a portion reaches the laborers. I can select based on the exact expertise I need which consultants would be most appropriate
- sph 9mo ago
  > As a client, I could just hire a consultant. True, but in practice large clients can’t be bothered with hiring consultants directly for a number of reasons, so that’s why they go through agencies, basically delegating the entire HR portion.
  - conductr 9mo ago
    Consultancy is what I described > It’s basically the same. I pay hire rate for labor knowing only a portion reaches the laborers.
wildzzz 9mo ago
I used to work for a guy that did government contract work as a two person company. His wife got him jobs and did the administrative work while he solely focused on the technical work. She obviously wasn't doing this full time and had some other administrative consulting business she spent most of her time on. One major upside was that his wife was the owner so she was able to claim it as a veteran, minority woman owned small business which gave them some preferential treatment when submitting proposals. I'm not entirely sure what the structure of it was to make it legit but they did it for years until she got a bigger opportunity for her other business. Set up your two person firm in a HUBZone and I think you've checked nearly all the boxes.
mvid 9mo ago
This is literally what 10xmanagement.com does. They operate as a talent agent, do contract negotiation, handle payment, etc. The main drawback is they keep a relatively tight roster (to make sure the work is consistent) and they take 25%

by sph 9mo ago

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

lazide 9mo ago

You said it yourself - they make more money and have more control doing it the other way. Put differently - why wouldn’t you do it?

actionfromafar 9mo ago
What they do may be a local optimum.
- lazide 9mo ago
  That doesn’t answer my question?
  - actionfromafar 9mo ago
    I you have the vision and don't have the "tyranny" of say, impatient shareholders, you can you chase a longer term goal than maximum profit right now.
sph 9mo ago
Because contractor satisfaction is important to them, as they're the ones that make them money at the end of the day? Of course this doesn't work for sweatshops, but when we're talking about big contracts and managing experienced devs, we're not so easily replaceable. I have given them notice that I will end my engagement with them this summer, for example, and now they'll have to spend a couple months finding a replacement; if we had had a more sane arrangement, I might've stayed. Of course being greedy and extracting maximum profit out of workers is a valid strategy, but I do not think that it is the only way to run a business.
- lazide 9mo ago
  In the current market, they may be able to find folks easier than they previously were.

fock 9mo ago

well, maybe you should own your agent and fund a cooperative for that purpose?

samiv 9mo ago

They're going to turn this into a double dip model where the client and the freelancer both pay them. If you think the labor market is tough now, just wait until if/when the claims AI aficionados come to fruition.

weitendorf 9mo ago

The difference between a 10% agent and a 30-60% subcontractor is what's being purchased, and from whom. Actors and other famous creatives are selling their particular work, which is unique and demanded by clients mostly independently of details like who their agent is. When a client pays 2x to an agency that pays the subcontractor implementing the work 1x to complete it, what's being purchased is the agency's work - working directly with the client, finding developers to complete the work, and managing the process of delivery (and all the related bits: making sure their subcontractors know what they're doing and are appropriate fits for the project, keeping work on track, being accountable for delivery/operational execution to the client). If that extra 20-50% were so easy/useless that it can be grabbed "without lifting a finger", why aren't you finding enough work on your own to keep yourself busy, or, why are you still working with that third-party company to begin with? Oh, you would, if you "had any interest" in doing that. That level of accountability to the client and attention to their needs is literally what clients are paying the agency for, and why they're the ones handling the demand for work rather than their subcontractors. If clients aren't seeking out your particular involvement in their project, you're the guy working the mic, not the movie star.

ethbr1 9mo ago
> making sure their subcontractors know what they're doing and are appropriate fits for the project, keeping work on track, ... I think this is where the reality falls apart. Often agencies are just skimming their percentage without adding real value to the project. I.e. all those scenarios where a consulting company requires a PM and BA be billed, but the dev+customer are doing 99% of the communication and work directly > being accountable for delivery/operational execution to the client This is actually what most VPs are paying for: being able to pick up a phone and chew IBM GCS, TCS, CG, etc. out when the schedule slips.
- barelysapient 9mo ago
  Exactly, there’s different types of agencies. Some focus on sourcing labor at a markup. Others focus on producing a work product that they specialize in. From my experience these guys tend to have larger margins.

conductr 9mo ago

As a client, I could just hire a consultant. There’s no shortage and they have reputation to uphold / less risky to me potentially. It’s basically the same. I pay hire rate for labor knowing only a portion reaches the laborers. I can select based on the exact expertise I need which consultants would be most appropriate

sph 9mo ago
> As a client, I could just hire a consultant. True, but in practice large clients can’t be bothered with hiring consultants directly for a number of reasons, so that’s why they go through agencies, basically delegating the entire HR portion.
- conductr 9mo ago
  Consultancy is what I described > It’s basically the same. I pay hire rate for labor knowing only a portion reaches the laborers.

wildzzz 9mo ago

I used to work for a guy that did government contract work as a two person company. His wife got him jobs and did the administrative work while he solely focused on the technical work. She obviously wasn't doing this full time and had some other administrative consulting business she spent most of her time on. One major upside was that his wife was the owner so she was able to claim it as a veteran, minority woman owned small business which gave them some preferential treatment when submitting proposals. I'm not entirely sure what the structure of it was to make it legit but they did it for years until she got a bigger opportunity for her other business. Set up your two person firm in a HUBZone and I think you've checked nearly all the boxes.

mvid 9mo ago

This is literally what 10xmanagement.com does. They operate as a talent agent, do contract negotiation, handle payment, etc. The main drawback is they keep a relatively tight roster (to make sure the work is consistent) and they take 25%