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I just read that whole thread and I think the author made the mistake of submitting a 13k loc PR, but other than that - while he gets downvoted to hell on every

by kleiba 9mo ago

I just read that whole thread and I think the author made the mistake of submitting a 13k loc PR, but other than that - while he gets downvoted to hell on every comment - he's actually acting professionally and politely. I wouldn't call this a fiasco, it reads to me more that being able to create huge amounts of code - whether the end result works well or not - breaks the traditional model of open source. Small contributions can be verified and the merrit-vs-maintenance-effort can at least be assessed somewhat more realistically. I have no bones in the "vibe coding sucks" vs "vibe coding rocks" discussion and I reading that thread as an outsider. I cannot help but find the PR author's attitude absolutely okay while the compiler folks are very defensive. I do agree with them that submitting a huge PR request without prior discussion cannot be the way forward. But that's almost orthogonal to the question of whether AI-generated code is or is not of value. If I were the author, I would probably take my 13k loc proof-of-concept implementation and chop it down into bite-size steps that are easy to digest, and try to get them to get integrated into the compiler successively, with being totally upfront about what the final goal is. You'd need to be ready to accept criticism and requests for change, but it should not be too hard to have your AI of choice incorporate these into your code base. I think the main mistake of the author was not to use vibe coding, it was to dream up his own personal ideal of a huge feature, and then go ahead and single-handedly implement the whole thing without involving anyone from the actual compiler project. You cannot blame the maintainers for not being crazy about accepting such a huge blob.

vasco 9mo ago
He is not polite, he is of the utmost rudeness. As a reply to being pointed to the fact that he copied so much code that the generated code included someone else's name in the License, his reply was https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/pull/14369/changes/ce372a60bd97e0a19b336c3042c4036cfda3c01e https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/pull/14369/changes/ce372a60bd... I struggle to think how someone thinks this is polite. Is politeness to you just not using curse words?
- kleiba 9mo ago
  Admittedly, his handling of this aspect was perhaps less than ideal, but I cannot see any impoliteness here whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I struggle to think how you could think otherwise. But I am biased. After having lived a number of years in a country where I would say the average understanding of politeness is vastly different from where I've grown up, I've learned that there is just a difference of opinion of what is polite and what isn't. I have probably been affected by that too.
  - troupo 9mo ago
    > but I cannot see any impoliteness here whatsoever. Ah yes. "It's AI I don't care" and "AI has very deep reasoning about code, prove me wrong" are the height of politeness.
    - kleiba 9mo ago
      Well, I wouldn't necessarily call it "going out of your way to be accommodating", but impolite is just not the word I'd choose to characterize it. I can see why others might but it's just my personal feeling that I don't think that this is the correct adjective here. That said, I don't feel like this topic is important enough to go on about it, I probably spend enough keystrokes on it already.
      - troupo 9mo ago
        That's how politicians and passive-aggressive people hide their rudeness/impoliteness: under a veneer of polite-sounding phrases. But I guess we could've used a few other synonyms: https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/impolite https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/impolite inconsiderate, thoughtless, impertinent (2nd meaning) :)
  - vasco 9mo ago
    You sound like you'd characterize a thief as polite if he asked you please when taking your wallet.
    - 9mo ago
monegator 9mo ago
simple: search that user. He's a grifter with many failed venues that recently started flooding big project with useless PRs everybody should collectively tell him to fuck off
- kleiba 9mo ago
  That may or may not be the case - I really was just going off this one thread, and how I personally read it. I completely appreciate that others read it differently.
63stack 9mo ago
"Why did you submit these files that are attributed to a completely unrelated person?" "Beats me" Do you consider this "professional and polite"? Raise your standards.
- kleiba 9mo ago
  Minimally, I don't find this an unusual tone in the slightest for cs threads. But then again, I'm old. I'm also quite surprised that apparently you cannot utter what is clearly just a personal opinion -- not a claim of objective truth -- without getting downvoted. But then again, the semantics of votes are not well-defined. At the same time, I'm quite grateful for the constructive comments further down below under my original post.

by kleiba 9mo ago

vasco 9mo ago

He is not polite, he is of the utmost rudeness. As a reply to being pointed to the fact that he copied so much code that the generated code included someone else's name in the License, his reply was https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/pull/14369/changes/ce372a60bd97e0a19b336c3042c4036cfda3c01e https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/pull/14369/changes/ce372a60bd... I struggle to think how someone thinks this is polite. Is politeness to you just not using curse words?

kleiba 9mo ago
Admittedly, his handling of this aspect was perhaps less than ideal, but I cannot see any impoliteness here whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I struggle to think how you could think otherwise. But I am biased. After having lived a number of years in a country where I would say the average understanding of politeness is vastly different from where I've grown up, I've learned that there is just a difference of opinion of what is polite and what isn't. I have probably been affected by that too.
- troupo 9mo ago
  > but I cannot see any impoliteness here whatsoever. Ah yes. "It's AI I don't care" and "AI has very deep reasoning about code, prove me wrong" are the height of politeness.
  - kleiba 9mo ago
    Well, I wouldn't necessarily call it "going out of your way to be accommodating", but impolite is just not the word I'd choose to characterize it. I can see why others might but it's just my personal feeling that I don't think that this is the correct adjective here. That said, I don't feel like this topic is important enough to go on about it, I probably spend enough keystrokes on it already.
    - troupo 9mo ago
      That's how politicians and passive-aggressive people hide their rudeness/impoliteness: under a veneer of polite-sounding phrases. But I guess we could've used a few other synonyms: https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/impolite https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/impolite inconsiderate, thoughtless, impertinent (2nd meaning) :)
- vasco 9mo ago
  You sound like you'd characterize a thief as polite if he asked you please when taking your wallet.
  - 9mo ago

monegator 9mo ago

simple: search that user. He's a grifter with many failed venues that recently started flooding big project with useless PRs everybody should collectively tell him to fuck off

kleiba 9mo ago
That may or may not be the case - I really was just going off this one thread, and how I personally read it. I completely appreciate that others read it differently.

63stack 9mo ago

"Why did you submit these files that are attributed to a completely unrelated person?" "Beats me" Do you consider this "professional and polite"? Raise your standards.

kleiba 9mo ago
Minimally, I don't find this an unusual tone in the slightest for cs threads. But then again, I'm old. I'm also quite surprised that apparently you cannot utter what is clearly just a personal opinion -- not a claim of objective truth -- without getting downvoted. But then again, the semantics of votes are not well-defined. At the same time, I'm quite grateful for the constructive comments further down below under my original post.