5 ms·

That's not how things work in practice. I think the concern is not that "people don't know how everything works" - people never needed to know how to "make the

by virgilp 8mo ago

That's not how things work in practice. I think the concern is not that "people don't know how everything works" - people never needed to know how to "make their own food" by understanding all the cellular mechanisms and all the intricacies of the chemistry & physics involved in cooking. BUT, when you stop understanding the basics - when you no longer know how to fry an egg because you just get it already prepared from the shop/ from delivery - that's a whole different level of ignorance, that's much more dangerous. Yes, it may be fine & completely non-concerning if agricultural corporations produce your wheat and your meat; but if the corporation starts producing standardized cooked food for everyone, is it really the same - is it a good evolution, or not? That's the debate here.

ahnick 8mo ago
Most people have no idea how to hunt, make a fire, or grow food. If all grocery stores and restaurants run out of food for a long enough time people will starve. This isn't a problem in practice though, because there are so many grocery stores and restaurants and supply chains source from multiple areas that the redundant and decentralized nature makes it not a problem. Thus it is the same with making your own food. Eventually if you have enough robots or food replicators around knowing how to make food becomes irrelevant, because you always will be able to find one even if yours is broken. (Note: we are not there yet)
- sciencejerk 8mo ago
  >If all grocery stores and restaurants run out of food for a long enough time people will starve. This isn't a problem in practice though... I fail to see how this isn't a problem? Grid failures happen? So do wars and natural disasters which can cause grids and supply chains to fail.
  - ahnick 8mo ago
    That is short hand. The problem exists of course, but it is improbable that it will actually occur in our lifetimes. An asteroid could slam into the earth or a gamma ray burst could sanitize the planet of all life. We could also experience nuclear war. These are problems that exist, yet we all just blissfully go on about our lives, b/c there is basically nothing that can be done to stop these things if they do happen and they likely won't. Basically we should only worry about these problems in so much as we as a species are able to actually do something about them.
  - pixl97 8mo ago
    If they are at small scale then it's fine. If it's at large scale then millions die of starvation.
- shevy-java 8mo ago
  In Star Trek they just 3D printed everything via light.
- xorcist 8mo ago
  > Most people have no idea how to hunt, make a fire, or grow food That's a bizarre claim, confidently stated. Of course I can make a fire, cook and my own food. You can, too. When it comes to hunting, skinning and the cutting of animals, that takes a bit more practice but anyone can manage something even if the result isn't pretty. If stores ran out of food we would have devastating problems but because of specialization, just because we live in cities now you simply can't go out hunting even if you wanted to. Plus there is probably much more pressing problems to take care of, such as the lack of water and fuel. If most people actually couldn't cook their own food, should they need, that would be a huge problem. Which makes the comparison with IT apt.
  - sceptic123 8mo ago
    I don't think they're saying _you_ can't do those things, just that most people can't which I have to agree with. They're not saying people can't learn those things either, but that's the practice you're talking about here. The real question is, can you learn to do it before you starve or freeze to death? Or perhaps poison yourself because you ate something you shouldn't or cooked it badly.
    - cucumber3732842 8mo ago
      > The real question is, can you learn to do it before you starve or freeze to death? Or perhaps poison yourself because you ate something you shouldn't or cooked it badly. You can eat some real terrible stuff and like 99.999% of the time only get the shits, which isn't really a concern if you have good access to clean drinking water and can stay hydrated. The overwhelming majority of people probably would figure it out even if they wind up eating a lot of questionable stuff in the first month and productivity in other areas would dedicate more resources to it.
      - sceptic123 8mo ago
        You're not going to be any good for hunting, farming or keeping warm if you have the shits though.
    - 8mo ago
- idiotsecant 8mo ago
  Ok, poof. Now everyone knows how to hunt, farm, and cook. What problem does this solve? In the event of breakdown of society there is nowhere near enough game or arable land near, for example, New York City to prevent mass starvation if the supply chain breaks down totally. This is a common prepper trope, but it doesn't make any sense. The actual valuable skill is trade connections and community. A group of people you know and trust, and the ability to reach out and form mini supply chains.
  - stetrain 8mo ago
    I don't think that comment is advocating for most people to be able to do these things or stating that this is a problem. In fact it says "This isn't a problem in practice though"
  - krab 8mo ago
    > This is a common prepper trope, but it doesn't make any sense. In case the supply chain breaks, preppers don't want to be the ones that starve. They don't claim they can prevent mass starvation. (Very off topic from the article)
    - idiotsecant 8mo ago
      Preppers are maybe the worst of the nonsense cosplay subcultures in modern memory. The moment things go south the people who come out ahead are always the people able to convince and control their fellow humans. The weirdo in the woods with the bunker gets his food stolen on like day 12. The post apocalypse warlord makes it through just fine. Better, maybe! The key to survival has always been tribal dynamics. This wouldn't change in the apocalypse.
- stronglikedan 8mo ago
  > Most people have no idea how to hunt, make a fire, or grow food. If all grocery stores and restaurants run out of food for a long enough time people will starve. I doubt people would starve. It's trivial to figure out the hunting and fire part in enough time that that won't happen. That said, I think a lot of people will die, but it will be as a result of competition for resources.
  - Legend2440 8mo ago
    People would absolutely starve, especially in the cities. It’s just not possible to feed 8 billion people without the industrial system of agriculture and food distribution. There aren’t enough wild animals to hunt.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
- 1718627440 8mo ago
  If I could hunt, it wouldn't actually matter, because nearly all the animals I would want are in stables. So all I would need to do is find a large enough rock and throw it at them, until they die. The much larger problem would be to keep all the other humans from doing that before me.
skeptic_ai 8mo ago
At what point is the threshold between fine and concerning? Seems like the one you put is from your point of view. I’m sure not everyone would agree and is subjective.
lijok 8mo ago
> that's a whole different level of ignorance, that's much more dangerous. Why? Is it more dangerous to not know how to fry an egg in a teflon pan, or on a stone over a wood fire? Is it acceptable to know the former but not the latter? Do I need to understand materials science so I can understand how to make something nonstick so I’m not dependant on teflon vendors?
- stoneforger 8mo ago
  You do need to be able to understand nonstick coating is unhealthy and not magic. You do need to understand your options for pan frying for not sticking are a film of water or an ice cube if you don't want to add an oil into the mix. Then it really depends what you are cooking on how sticky it will be and what the end product will look like. That's why there are people that can't fry an egg, people that cook, chefs, and Michelin chefs. Because nuance matters, it's just that the domain where each person wants to apply it is different. I dont care about nuance in hockey picks but probably some people do. But some domains should concern everyone.
  - pixl97 8mo ago
    >You do need to be able to understand nonstick coating is unhealthy and not magic Will it kill you faster than you can birth and raise the next generation? If it's something that kills you at 50 or 60, then really it doesn't matter that much as evolution expects you to be a grandparent by then.
  - OkayPhysicist 8mo ago
    > You do need to be able to understand nonstick coating is unhealthy and not magic. Prove it. Please, show me a method by which polytetrafluoroethylene is going to kill me. Because if you're like everyone else moaning about "plastic bad" online, you'll be wrong, and if you have some secret insight that no one else has, I'd love to hear it. But a basic understanding of chemistry reveals that PTFE is functionally inert. It doesn't react with damn near anything, it needs heats well in excess of anything you should be exposed to cooking to melt or burn, and even if you were eating the stuff straight, the whole "inert" thing applies to just about any digestive process your body could apply to it, too.

by virgilp 8mo ago

ahnick 8mo ago

Most people have no idea how to hunt, make a fire, or grow food. If all grocery stores and restaurants run out of food for a long enough time people will starve. This isn't a problem in practice though, because there are so many grocery stores and restaurants and supply chains source from multiple areas that the redundant and decentralized nature makes it not a problem. Thus it is the same with making your own food. Eventually if you have enough robots or food replicators around knowing how to make food becomes irrelevant, because you always will be able to find one even if yours is broken. (Note: we are not there yet)

sciencejerk 8mo ago
>If all grocery stores and restaurants run out of food for a long enough time people will starve. This isn't a problem in practice though... I fail to see how this isn't a problem? Grid failures happen? So do wars and natural disasters which can cause grids and supply chains to fail.
- ahnick 8mo ago
  That is short hand. The problem exists of course, but it is improbable that it will actually occur in our lifetimes. An asteroid could slam into the earth or a gamma ray burst could sanitize the planet of all life. We could also experience nuclear war. These are problems that exist, yet we all just blissfully go on about our lives, b/c there is basically nothing that can be done to stop these things if they do happen and they likely won't. Basically we should only worry about these problems in so much as we as a species are able to actually do something about them.
- pixl97 8mo ago
  If they are at small scale then it's fine. If it's at large scale then millions die of starvation.
shevy-java 8mo ago
In Star Trek they just 3D printed everything via light.
xorcist 8mo ago
> Most people have no idea how to hunt, make a fire, or grow food That's a bizarre claim, confidently stated. Of course I can make a fire, cook and my own food. You can, too. When it comes to hunting, skinning and the cutting of animals, that takes a bit more practice but anyone can manage something even if the result isn't pretty. If stores ran out of food we would have devastating problems but because of specialization, just because we live in cities now you simply can't go out hunting even if you wanted to. Plus there is probably much more pressing problems to take care of, such as the lack of water and fuel. If most people actually couldn't cook their own food, should they need, that would be a huge problem. Which makes the comparison with IT apt.
- sceptic123 8mo ago
  I don't think they're saying _you_ can't do those things, just that most people can't which I have to agree with. They're not saying people can't learn those things either, but that's the practice you're talking about here. The real question is, can you learn to do it before you starve or freeze to death? Or perhaps poison yourself because you ate something you shouldn't or cooked it badly.
  - cucumber3732842 8mo ago
    > The real question is, can you learn to do it before you starve or freeze to death? Or perhaps poison yourself because you ate something you shouldn't or cooked it badly. You can eat some real terrible stuff and like 99.999% of the time only get the shits, which isn't really a concern if you have good access to clean drinking water and can stay hydrated. The overwhelming majority of people probably would figure it out even if they wind up eating a lot of questionable stuff in the first month and productivity in other areas would dedicate more resources to it.
    - sceptic123 8mo ago
      You're not going to be any good for hunting, farming or keeping warm if you have the shits though.
  - 8mo ago
idiotsecant 8mo ago
Ok, poof. Now everyone knows how to hunt, farm, and cook. What problem does this solve? In the event of breakdown of society there is nowhere near enough game or arable land near, for example, New York City to prevent mass starvation if the supply chain breaks down totally. This is a common prepper trope, but it doesn't make any sense. The actual valuable skill is trade connections and community. A group of people you know and trust, and the ability to reach out and form mini supply chains.
- stetrain 8mo ago
  I don't think that comment is advocating for most people to be able to do these things or stating that this is a problem. In fact it says "This isn't a problem in practice though"
- krab 8mo ago
  > This is a common prepper trope, but it doesn't make any sense. In case the supply chain breaks, preppers don't want to be the ones that starve. They don't claim they can prevent mass starvation. (Very off topic from the article)
  - idiotsecant 8mo ago
    Preppers are maybe the worst of the nonsense cosplay subcultures in modern memory. The moment things go south the people who come out ahead are always the people able to convince and control their fellow humans. The weirdo in the woods with the bunker gets his food stolen on like day 12. The post apocalypse warlord makes it through just fine. Better, maybe! The key to survival has always been tribal dynamics. This wouldn't change in the apocalypse.
stronglikedan 8mo ago
> Most people have no idea how to hunt, make a fire, or grow food. If all grocery stores and restaurants run out of food for a long enough time people will starve. I doubt people would starve. It's trivial to figure out the hunting and fire part in enough time that that won't happen. That said, I think a lot of people will die, but it will be as a result of competition for resources.
- Legend2440 8mo ago
  People would absolutely starve, especially in the cities. It’s just not possible to feed 8 billion people without the industrial system of agriculture and food distribution. There aren’t enough wild animals to hunt.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
1718627440 8mo ago
If I could hunt, it wouldn't actually matter, because nearly all the animals I would want are in stables. So all I would need to do is find a large enough rock and throw it at them, until they die. The much larger problem would be to keep all the other humans from doing that before me.

skeptic_ai 8mo ago

At what point is the threshold between fine and concerning? Seems like the one you put is from your point of view. I’m sure not everyone would agree and is subjective.

lijok 8mo ago

> that's a whole different level of ignorance, that's much more dangerous. Why? Is it more dangerous to not know how to fry an egg in a teflon pan, or on a stone over a wood fire? Is it acceptable to know the former but not the latter? Do I need to understand materials science so I can understand how to make something nonstick so I’m not dependant on teflon vendors?

stoneforger 8mo ago
You do need to be able to understand nonstick coating is unhealthy and not magic. You do need to understand your options for pan frying for not sticking are a film of water or an ice cube if you don't want to add an oil into the mix. Then it really depends what you are cooking on how sticky it will be and what the end product will look like. That's why there are people that can't fry an egg, people that cook, chefs, and Michelin chefs. Because nuance matters, it's just that the domain where each person wants to apply it is different. I dont care about nuance in hockey picks but probably some people do. But some domains should concern everyone.
- pixl97 8mo ago
  >You do need to be able to understand nonstick coating is unhealthy and not magic Will it kill you faster than you can birth and raise the next generation? If it's something that kills you at 50 or 60, then really it doesn't matter that much as evolution expects you to be a grandparent by then.
- OkayPhysicist 8mo ago
  > You do need to be able to understand nonstick coating is unhealthy and not magic. Prove it. Please, show me a method by which polytetrafluoroethylene is going to kill me. Because if you're like everyone else moaning about "plastic bad" online, you'll be wrong, and if you have some secret insight that no one else has, I'd love to hear it. But a basic understanding of chemistry reveals that PTFE is functionally inert. It doesn't react with damn near anything, it needs heats well in excess of anything you should be exposed to cooking to melt or burn, and even if you were eating the stuff straight, the whole "inert" thing applies to just about any digestive process your body could apply to it, too.