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Apple Container 0.9.0

58 points by tosh 9mo ago

bsaul 9mo ago
is this à replacement for docker ? Super interesting that they're using swift. Does this mean the project is only a wrapper for system libraries ? I can't imagine writing low-level system code in swift yet.
- bahador 9mo ago
  > A tool for creating and running Linux containers using lightweight virtual machines on a Mac. It is written in Swift, and optimized for Apple silicon. apple.github.io/container/documentation/
- ironhaven 9mo ago
  I was going to rant about how containerization does not just mean Linux namespaces but that is what this is. This project is very similar to docker with a background daemon server that you control via a cli to launch Linux containers. Because Linux containers need Linux namespaces, each container is run in a virtual machine with a Linux kernel.
  - lxgr 9mo ago
    They don't just need Linux namespaces, they need the rest of Linux too! That's the ABI all software in OCI containers expects.
    - pjmlp 9mo ago
      Not really, Windows containers do exist.
      - lxgr 9mo ago
        Yes, but GP was talking about Linux containers.
        pjmlp 9mo ago
        > That's the ABI all software in OCI containers expects. Windows containers also use OCI format.
        lxgr 9mo ago
        Yes, those aren't Linux OCI containers, and those are the kind of OCI containers this thread is about.
  - wpm 9mo ago
    I'm surprised that given Apples love of sandboxing, especially on iOS, that XNU doesn't have something similar to namespaces or jails.
    - bjoli 9mo ago
      IIRC they went for policy based sandboxing with Seatnelt and SIRP. That is pretty darn nice for gui apps, but not very good for things like containers.
- timsneath 9mo ago
  Swift goes further down the stack than you might at first imagine -- there's a lot of Swift written at Apple even in places where you might expect C. The container CLI tool wraps the underlying Containerization framework, which in turn vends packages for things like EXT4 file system support -- all written in Swift. Here's one example as a jumping off point. https://github.com/apple/containerization/blob/main/Sources/ContainerizationEXT4/EXT4%2BReader.swift https://github.com/apple/containerization/blob/main/Sources/...
- nsonha 9mo ago
  yes, it creates a microvm (using vz) per container though. Good if you need that kind of isolation, otherwise a little wasteful.
- pjmlp 9mo ago
  From Apple's point of view it is perfectly fine for such purposes. > From its earliest conception, Swift was built to be fast. Using the incredibly high-performance LLVM compiler technology, Swift code is transformed into optimized machine code that gets the most out of modern hardware. The syntax and standard library have also been tuned to make the most obvious way to write your code also perform the best whether it runs in the watch on your wrist or across a cluster of servers. And Swift is the best choice to succeed C++. It includes low-level primitives such as types, flow control, and operators, and provides object-oriented features such as classes, protocols, and generics. > Swift is efficient enough to be used in constrained environments like embedded devices, and powerful enough to scale all the way up to servers and cloud infrastructure. -- https://developer.apple.com/swift/ https://developer.apple.com/swift/ From my point of view, if Go does it, Swift is much better at the same game.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
kylehotchkiss 9mo ago
Anybody tried running vscode server in this? I don’t want to run it on my macOS with no sandbox, I find the full file access in the browser to be uncomfortable. I’ve fought Colima before and ran it within there but the host/vm permissions for editing files in a projects folder were a pain. So it’d be cool if this or a sandbox tool could help.
- ctmnt 9mo ago
  I haven’t tried bopca [1] with VSCode Server yet, but I will today. Should work fine, and if it doesn’t already, I’ll get it working. [1]: https://github.com/cboone/bopca https://github.com/cboone/bopca
adenta 9mo ago
Has anyone used this for shipping native apps? I know that's not what it was designed for but I would love to be able to ship a Tauri + rails app some day
mort96 9mo ago
Is there anything especially interesting about version 0.9.0? Nothing stands out to me in the changelog.
distracted_boy 9mo ago
Is there anyone who have gotten container-to-host communication working? I have tried the dns —localhost workaround but it does not work. I just want to reach a port on my host from the container.

58 points by tosh 9mo ago

bsaul 9mo ago

is this à replacement for docker ? Super interesting that they're using swift. Does this mean the project is only a wrapper for system libraries ? I can't imagine writing low-level system code in swift yet.

bahador 9mo ago
> A tool for creating and running Linux containers using lightweight virtual machines on a Mac. It is written in Swift, and optimized for Apple silicon. apple.github.io/container/documentation/
ironhaven 9mo ago
I was going to rant about how containerization does not just mean Linux namespaces but that is what this is. This project is very similar to docker with a background daemon server that you control via a cli to launch Linux containers. Because Linux containers need Linux namespaces, each container is run in a virtual machine with a Linux kernel.
- lxgr 9mo ago
  They don't just need Linux namespaces, they need the rest of Linux too! That's the ABI all software in OCI containers expects.
  - pjmlp 9mo ago
    Not really, Windows containers do exist.
    - lxgr 9mo ago
      Yes, but GP was talking about Linux containers.
      - pjmlp 9mo ago
        > That's the ABI all software in OCI containers expects. Windows containers also use OCI format.
        lxgr 9mo ago
        Yes, those aren't Linux OCI containers, and those are the kind of OCI containers this thread is about.
- wpm 9mo ago
  I'm surprised that given Apples love of sandboxing, especially on iOS, that XNU doesn't have something similar to namespaces or jails.
  - bjoli 9mo ago
    IIRC they went for policy based sandboxing with Seatnelt and SIRP. That is pretty darn nice for gui apps, but not very good for things like containers.
timsneath 9mo ago
Swift goes further down the stack than you might at first imagine -- there's a lot of Swift written at Apple even in places where you might expect C. The container CLI tool wraps the underlying Containerization framework, which in turn vends packages for things like EXT4 file system support -- all written in Swift. Here's one example as a jumping off point. https://github.com/apple/containerization/blob/main/Sources/ContainerizationEXT4/EXT4%2BReader.swift https://github.com/apple/containerization/blob/main/Sources/...
nsonha 9mo ago
yes, it creates a microvm (using vz) per container though. Good if you need that kind of isolation, otherwise a little wasteful.
pjmlp 9mo ago
From Apple's point of view it is perfectly fine for such purposes. > From its earliest conception, Swift was built to be fast. Using the incredibly high-performance LLVM compiler technology, Swift code is transformed into optimized machine code that gets the most out of modern hardware. The syntax and standard library have also been tuned to make the most obvious way to write your code also perform the best whether it runs in the watch on your wrist or across a cluster of servers. And Swift is the best choice to succeed C++. It includes low-level primitives such as types, flow control, and operators, and provides object-oriented features such as classes, protocols, and generics. > Swift is efficient enough to be used in constrained environments like embedded devices, and powerful enough to scale all the way up to servers and cloud infrastructure. -- https://developer.apple.com/swift/ https://developer.apple.com/swift/ From my point of view, if Go does it, Swift is much better at the same game.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

kylehotchkiss 9mo ago

Anybody tried running vscode server in this? I don’t want to run it on my macOS with no sandbox, I find the full file access in the browser to be uncomfortable. I’ve fought Colima before and ran it within there but the host/vm permissions for editing files in a projects folder were a pain. So it’d be cool if this or a sandbox tool could help.

ctmnt 9mo ago
I haven’t tried bopca [1] with VSCode Server yet, but I will today. Should work fine, and if it doesn’t already, I’ll get it working. [1]: https://github.com/cboone/bopca https://github.com/cboone/bopca

adenta 9mo ago

Has anyone used this for shipping native apps? I know that's not what it was designed for but I would love to be able to ship a Tauri + rails app some day

mort96 9mo ago

Is there anything especially interesting about version 0.9.0? Nothing stands out to me in the changelog.

distracted_boy 9mo ago

Is there anyone who have gotten container-to-host communication working? I have tried the dns —localhost workaround but it does not work. I just want to reach a port on my host from the container.