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I evolved to eat fish and meat killed. So did all other carnivores. I'm happy to continue eating and shitting and sleeping and having sex, I don't want suppleme

I evolved to eat fish and meat killed. So did all other carnivores. I'm happy to continue eating and shitting and sleeping and having sex, I don't want supplements to replace food and AI to replace intellect and IVF to replace sex. I want to be alive.

niek_pas 9mo ago
You also evolved to nearly choke to death when you accidentally eat and breathe at the same time. Doesn’t mean it’s desirable.
- mlekoszek 9mo ago
  At least we can talk about it.
- wang_li 9mo ago
  “Evolution” is not a sound basis for most choices. We didn’t evolve to wear shoes, live in houses, to use powerful cleaning agents, indoor plumbing, decontaminated water, refrigeration, and pretty much all modern medicine, among about every other thing that is part of modern life.
cluckindan 9mo ago
Reject modernity, embrace nomadic life in the forests.
- Propelloni 9mo ago
  Preach it. I, for one, welcome my caveman dentist!
dymk 9mo ago
You are not living in the body of a carnivore Eat some berries and nuts "Paleo" diet doesn't even include that much meat in it
CalRobert 9mo ago
Ok, but evolution didn’t get us somewhere over 8 billion people can share this planet.
staticassertion 9mo ago
This feels like a series of completely disconnected statements. The underlying theme seems to be that "living" is something that can only be realized by isolating behaviors to those that developed under specific niche conditions that applied pressure to our ancestors, and that this is good, and that deviating is bad. The word "living" and "alive" seems to be a proxy word for something like "happy" or "fulfilled"? So many hoops to jump through to understand what the hell you're talking about, just to land on what could charitably be called the dumbest thing I'll read today if I'm lucky.
Insanity 9mo ago
Our species started out predominantly eating fruits, vegetables, nuts,.. As hunter gatherers, meat eating came later and initially was still not a dominant source of nutrition. So yes, you eventually evolved for this, but it wasn’t the dominant food source for a loooooong time.
- Antipode 9mo ago
  Also likely insects.
- konart 9mo ago
  Our species started out predominantly eating whatever was available. During different points of time the ration was very different. From "mostly nuts" to "mostly fish".
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - Insanity 9mo ago
    Yes, but more likely insects as first small “animals”. Hunting animals takes more effort than eating fruits etc. I know it’s all vague delineation of where our species really started, and at which point you would no longer consider it the homo line, but for a significant part of history we were a small predator that would eat whatever was _easily_ available. Hunting animals is not easy and it’s a risky endeavour. I’m not saying meat wasn’t part of our diet obviously, but it logically wouldn’t have been as dominant a part of our diet as it is today.
    - adrian_b 9mo ago
      The most likely hypothesis about how humans have become the most efficient hunters of the planet does not pass through catching insects and very small animals, but through eating the remains of the big prey killed by carnivores. There are various bits of evidence for this, like the higher stomach acidity of humans, which resembles that of carrion eaters, like hyenas. It is plausible that the ability to throw sticks and stones was used initially for scaring other predators and make them abandon their prey, and only later, after hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, it became accurate enough to be usable for hunting living animals. The ability to use stones to break the bones and eat the parts inaccessible for the carnivores who had killed the prey, i.e. marrow and brain, which are rich in hard to get nutrients, e.g. omega-3 fatty acids, is also presumed to have played an important role in the development of a bigger and bigger brain. It is likely that the gangs of humans acted in a very similar way with the packs of hyenas, which acquire much of their food by scaring away from their prey the other predators, e.g. cheetahs, wild dogs, leopards and even lions. Moreover, similarly to humans, the most important ability of hyenas is not speed, but endurance when pursuing a possible prey that is tired or weakened, e.g. by wounds. While hyenas rely on their big teeth to chase the other predators, humans have relied on their ability to throw things at a distance, for the same purpose. While humans are quite bad at running, jumping, climbing or swimming, in comparison with most mammals, their throwing ability is unmatched by any other animal.
boston_clone 9mo ago
You are not a carnivore, neither is any other human.
- amanaplanacanal 9mo ago
  Plenty do, though. Just like there are plenty of vegans. And plenty that live on junk food.
- bluGill 9mo ago
  I don't know anyone who claims that. Humans are omnivores is the most common claim - that is eat a mix of meat and vegitables.
  - Faelon 9mo ago
    This is orthogonal to the main point which is that just because we are capable of eating something doesn't provide a moral justification for eating something. It is extremely clear from data and example that it's possible and actually easy to live a happy life on a plant-based diet. This means that eating meat is a choice, and many would say it is an overwhelmingly cruel choice.
    - Saline9515 9mo ago
      Morality is a relative and personal thing. It is also very clear from data that you can live a good life while eating quality animal products. Some may prefer to do it for personal pleasure, but also ease of life, or cost, which allows them to have time for things that they believe are also moral. Such as taking care of their children, working, and so on.
  - boston_clone 9mo ago
    The commenter I'm replying to implicitly made that claim: > [...] So did all other carnivores
Faelon 9mo ago
Abstaining from killing animals is about the sober realization that we can have perfectly healthy and happy lives without killing animals, who have feelings and a sense of perspective and experience, just like us. Living with my values and actions as one give me a strong sense of life, and I love cooking every day. Plants taste great when cooked well!
- dotancohen 9mo ago
  > Abstaining from killing animals is about the sober realization that we can have perfectly healthy and happy lives without killing animals, Maybe, maybe not. If one is lacking a hobby and happy to spend much time learning and obsessing and fiddling with what they eat, while accepting that they may be missing some vital things that we don't yet know about, then sure. But I have enough hobbies and I don't want to risk missing some things we don't yet know about. I just eat what I evolved to eat.
  - girvo 9mo ago
    > I just eat what I evolved to eat So do I: plants!
    - bluGill 9mo ago
      I'm an omnivore. all meat or no meat is not what i'm evolved to eat. Perhaps I eat too much meat, but zero meat isn't the right answer.
      - Faelon 9mo ago
        Just because you evolved to do something doesn't provide a moral justification to do that thing. Whether you evolved to or not, animals suffer extraordinarily in the farms of torture we've made for them. It is well accepted that you can eat healthily on a vegan diet, and it would only really take a couple articles to figure out how to have a healthy plant-based diet. You could do it at Walmart.
Braxton1980 9mo ago
>, I don't want supplements to replace food and AI to replace intellect and IVF to replace sex. I want to be alive No one is pushing for these changes you suggest and to take a stance suggests a social disorder or mental illness.
BobaFloutist 9mo ago
I evolved to shit outdoors, bathe in cold water, sleep on the ground, and die without having traveled more than at most a couple of hundreds of miles from my birthplace but I refuse to be limited by the capacities of a glorified ape without language, culture, or understanding of the interiority of others, not to mention indoor plumbing.
- dotancohen 9mo ago
  Well actually I still prefer to shit outdoors and bathe in cold water. https://travel.stackexchange.com/a/34403 https://travel.stackexchange.com/a/34403
  - BobaFloutist 9mo ago
    That would I assume preclude taking a shower for 3-4 months of the year in some climates? Especially since we didn't evolve with indoor heating either. Or indoors at all, for that matter.

niek_pas 9mo ago

You also evolved to nearly choke to death when you accidentally eat and breathe at the same time. Doesn’t mean it’s desirable.

mlekoszek 9mo ago
At least we can talk about it.
wang_li 9mo ago
“Evolution” is not a sound basis for most choices. We didn’t evolve to wear shoes, live in houses, to use powerful cleaning agents, indoor plumbing, decontaminated water, refrigeration, and pretty much all modern medicine, among about every other thing that is part of modern life.

cluckindan 9mo ago

Reject modernity, embrace nomadic life in the forests.

Propelloni 9mo ago
Preach it. I, for one, welcome my caveman dentist!

dymk 9mo ago

You are not living in the body of a carnivore Eat some berries and nuts "Paleo" diet doesn't even include that much meat in it

CalRobert 9mo ago

Ok, but evolution didn’t get us somewhere over 8 billion people can share this planet.

staticassertion 9mo ago

This feels like a series of completely disconnected statements. The underlying theme seems to be that "living" is something that can only be realized by isolating behaviors to those that developed under specific niche conditions that applied pressure to our ancestors, and that this is good, and that deviating is bad. The word "living" and "alive" seems to be a proxy word for something like "happy" or "fulfilled"? So many hoops to jump through to understand what the hell you're talking about, just to land on what could charitably be called the dumbest thing I'll read today if I'm lucky.

Insanity 9mo ago

Our species started out predominantly eating fruits, vegetables, nuts,.. As hunter gatherers, meat eating came later and initially was still not a dominant source of nutrition. So yes, you eventually evolved for this, but it wasn’t the dominant food source for a loooooong time.

Antipode 9mo ago
Also likely insects.
konart 9mo ago
Our species started out predominantly eating whatever was available. During different points of time the ration was very different. From "mostly nuts" to "mostly fish".
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- Insanity 9mo ago
  Yes, but more likely insects as first small “animals”. Hunting animals takes more effort than eating fruits etc. I know it’s all vague delineation of where our species really started, and at which point you would no longer consider it the homo line, but for a significant part of history we were a small predator that would eat whatever was _easily_ available. Hunting animals is not easy and it’s a risky endeavour. I’m not saying meat wasn’t part of our diet obviously, but it logically wouldn’t have been as dominant a part of our diet as it is today.
  - adrian_b 9mo ago
    The most likely hypothesis about how humans have become the most efficient hunters of the planet does not pass through catching insects and very small animals, but through eating the remains of the big prey killed by carnivores. There are various bits of evidence for this, like the higher stomach acidity of humans, which resembles that of carrion eaters, like hyenas. It is plausible that the ability to throw sticks and stones was used initially for scaring other predators and make them abandon their prey, and only later, after hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, it became accurate enough to be usable for hunting living animals. The ability to use stones to break the bones and eat the parts inaccessible for the carnivores who had killed the prey, i.e. marrow and brain, which are rich in hard to get nutrients, e.g. omega-3 fatty acids, is also presumed to have played an important role in the development of a bigger and bigger brain. It is likely that the gangs of humans acted in a very similar way with the packs of hyenas, which acquire much of their food by scaring away from their prey the other predators, e.g. cheetahs, wild dogs, leopards and even lions. Moreover, similarly to humans, the most important ability of hyenas is not speed, but endurance when pursuing a possible prey that is tired or weakened, e.g. by wounds. While hyenas rely on their big teeth to chase the other predators, humans have relied on their ability to throw things at a distance, for the same purpose. While humans are quite bad at running, jumping, climbing or swimming, in comparison with most mammals, their throwing ability is unmatched by any other animal.

boston_clone 9mo ago

You are not a carnivore, neither is any other human.

amanaplanacanal 9mo ago
Plenty do, though. Just like there are plenty of vegans. And plenty that live on junk food.
bluGill 9mo ago
I don't know anyone who claims that. Humans are omnivores is the most common claim - that is eat a mix of meat and vegitables.
- Faelon 9mo ago
  This is orthogonal to the main point which is that just because we are capable of eating something doesn't provide a moral justification for eating something. It is extremely clear from data and example that it's possible and actually easy to live a happy life on a plant-based diet. This means that eating meat is a choice, and many would say it is an overwhelmingly cruel choice.
  - Saline9515 9mo ago
    Morality is a relative and personal thing. It is also very clear from data that you can live a good life while eating quality animal products. Some may prefer to do it for personal pleasure, but also ease of life, or cost, which allows them to have time for things that they believe are also moral. Such as taking care of their children, working, and so on.
- boston_clone 9mo ago
  The commenter I'm replying to implicitly made that claim: > [...] So did all other carnivores

Faelon 9mo ago

Abstaining from killing animals is about the sober realization that we can have perfectly healthy and happy lives without killing animals, who have feelings and a sense of perspective and experience, just like us. Living with my values and actions as one give me a strong sense of life, and I love cooking every day. Plants taste great when cooked well!

dotancohen 9mo ago
> Abstaining from killing animals is about the sober realization that we can have perfectly healthy and happy lives without killing animals, Maybe, maybe not. If one is lacking a hobby and happy to spend much time learning and obsessing and fiddling with what they eat, while accepting that they may be missing some vital things that we don't yet know about, then sure. But I have enough hobbies and I don't want to risk missing some things we don't yet know about. I just eat what I evolved to eat.
- girvo 9mo ago
  > I just eat what I evolved to eat So do I: plants!
  - bluGill 9mo ago
    I'm an omnivore. all meat or no meat is not what i'm evolved to eat. Perhaps I eat too much meat, but zero meat isn't the right answer.
    - Faelon 9mo ago
      Just because you evolved to do something doesn't provide a moral justification to do that thing. Whether you evolved to or not, animals suffer extraordinarily in the farms of torture we've made for them. It is well accepted that you can eat healthily on a vegan diet, and it would only really take a couple articles to figure out how to have a healthy plant-based diet. You could do it at Walmart.

Braxton1980 9mo ago

>, I don't want supplements to replace food and AI to replace intellect and IVF to replace sex. I want to be alive No one is pushing for these changes you suggest and to take a stance suggests a social disorder or mental illness.

BobaFloutist 9mo ago

I evolved to shit outdoors, bathe in cold water, sleep on the ground, and die without having traveled more than at most a couple of hundreds of miles from my birthplace but I refuse to be limited by the capacities of a glorified ape without language, culture, or understanding of the interiority of others, not to mention indoor plumbing.

dotancohen 9mo ago
Well actually I still prefer to shit outdoors and bathe in cold water. https://travel.stackexchange.com/a/34403 https://travel.stackexchange.com/a/34403
- BobaFloutist 9mo ago
  That would I assume preclude taking a shower for 3-4 months of the year in some climates? Especially since we didn't evolve with indoor heating either. Or indoors at all, for that matter.